A&H

So, I feel like I became a poorer referee as I got older....

C

CapnBloodbeard

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Kept this pretty close to my chest for quite a few years, but I'll see if you guys have any advice.
Long post, but it's not often that I'm the one asking for help on here - so I appreciate anybody taking the time to read through my post and respond.

Basically, I started refereeing about 17 years ago in a regional area, moved to my current city about 8 years ago, only refereed sporadically due to work commitments. 5 years ago went back to my old area for a season, came back, put in a season where I am now and gave it up due to work/time/study commitments (still haven't quite managed to get rid of my equipment though......)
Here's the thing. In my younger years I was always considered a quite capable, up and coming referee, and moved onto the top panel in my region fairly quickly upon hitting senior years, and had a few good GF appointments, including a couple of lines on the local first grade GF and some pretty decent middles too. At a national tournament was told by a national level inspector that I was the sort of referee where he could put me on any game and I could manage it, but I'd never make a HAL (our version of the EPL) referee (basically, I think they want referees with attitude/flair/arrogance). I was confident in my ability and didn't have too many difficulties on the pitch. Not bragging, providing context.
When I went back to my regional area, I struggled badly. It seemed to me that the levels of aggression and abuse had increased tenfold, but I felt like when I was officiating on the local premier league, that I was losing control of more games than not. Quite a few ended up in an absolute s***fight - and worse, on a few games I know I made a number of really amateurish errors. I started to feel like I just couldn't control a match at this higher level anymore - and that meant that if it got to within the last 20min of a game, I'd start becoming really nervous for the game to finish expecting it would blow up at any time.
Move forwards a year - different region, different grades. Even the lower grades I made a number of bad errors which affected the outcome - stupid, amateur errors. Worst of all, the errors from last season and this were repeating themselves. I was still struggling for control in the more intense matches as well, just felt like I couldn't gain or hold the respect of the players and the higher level games just tended to blow up.

So, while it may be several years before I have the time to get back into it, any thoughts, tips or words?
In the years where I wasn't doing much outdoor I picked up quite a bit of Futsal, and I've found that my approach to player management in Futsal had to be different to outdoor, and it may be that somehow this has wound up having a detrimental impact (I will never referee Futsal again - players are too problematic and I've had more assaults against myself and serious, over-the-top levels of abuse in 2 years of futsal than 15 seasons of outdoor. Pity because it's enjoyable otherwise, and good money too).

It seems like my attitude and confidence on the field dropped and I became less certain of my influence on the game and I couldn't control a game as a result. As to why I was making stupid, match-changing errors......well, I don't know why that was happening with greater frequency. Of course, it may simply be that without a good assessor watching a game that blew up, that it's difficult to work out what the issue is. I think my card delivery is overly aggressive which I'm sure is one factor, but I couldn't help but wonder if I lost the feel for when to give a card and gave (or didn't give) them at the wrong times, thus affecting the match....

(The fact that I'm still spending time on here and on several facebook forums, as well as Ask The Ref, indicates that it's something I still strongly care about)

And yes, believe it or not I'm about the least arrogant person you'll ever meet, though when it comes to refereeing advice and knowledge.....yes, I'll admit I can be arrogant and think I tend to know best, shocking to some!!
 
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CapnBloodbeard said:
Kept this pretty close to my chest for quite a few years, but I'll see if you guys have any advice.
Long post, but it's not often that I'm the one asking for help on here - so I appreciate anybody taking the time to read through my post and respond.

Basically, I started refereeing about 17 years ago in a regional area, moved to my current city about 8 years ago, only refereed sporadically due to work commitments. 5 years ago went back to my old area for a season, came back, put in a season where I am now and gave it up due to work/time/study commitments (still haven't quite managed to get rid of my equipment though......)
Here's the thing. In my younger years I was always considered a quite capable, up and coming referee, and moved onto the top panel in my region fairly quickly upon hitting senior years, and had a few good GF appointments, including a couple of lines on the local first grade GF and some pretty decent middles too. At a national tournament was told by a national level inspector that I was the sort of referee where he could put me on any game and I could manage it, but I'd never make a HAL (our version of the EPL) referee (basically, I think they want referees with attitude/flair/arrogance). I was confident in my ability and didn't have too many difficulties on the pitch. Not bragging, providing context.
When I went back to my regional area, I struggled badly. It seemed to me that the levels of aggression and abuse had increased tenfold, but I felt like when I was officiating on the local premier league, that I was losing control of more games than not. Quite a few ended up in an absolute s***fight - and worse, on a few games I know I made a number of really amateurish errors. I started to feel like I just couldn't control a match at this higher level anymore - and that meant that if it got to within the last 20min of a game, I'd start becoming really nervous for the game to finish expecting it would blow up at any time.
Move forwards a year - different region, different grades. Even the lower grades I made a number of bad errors which affected the outcome - stupid, amateur errors. Worst of all, the errors from last season and this were repeating themselves. I was still struggling for control in the more intense matches as well, just felt like I couldn't gain or hold the respect of the players and the higher level games just tended to blow up.

So, while it may be several years before I have the time to get back into it, any thoughts, tips or words?
In the years where I wasn't doing much outdoor I picked up quite a bit of Futsal, and I've found that my approach to player management in Futsal had to be different to outdoor, and it may be that somehow this has wound up having a detrimental impact (I will never referee Futsal again - players are too problematic and I've had more assaults against myself and serious, over-the-top levels of abuse in 2 years of futsal than 15 seasons of outdoor. Pity because it's enjoyable otherwise, and good money too).

It seems like my attitude and confidence on the field dropped and I became less certain of my influence on the game and I couldn't control a game as a result. As to why I was making stupid, match-changing errors......well, I don't know why that was happening with greater frequency. Of course, it may simply be that without a good assessor watching a game that blew up, that it's difficult to work out what the issue is. I think my card delivery is overly aggressive which I'm sure is one factor, but I couldn't help but wonder if I lost the feel for when to give a card and gave (or didn't give) them at the wrong times, thus affecting the match....

(The fact that I'm still spending time on here and on several facebook forums, as well as Ask The Ref, indicates that it's something I still strongly care about)

And yes, believe it or not I'm about the least arrogant person you'll ever meet, though when it comes to refereeing advice and knowledge.....yes, I'll admit I can be arrogant and think I tend to know best, shocking to some!!
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First Post on here. Keep the faith. Speaking as someone who's newly minted (Have done 7 games so far in the middle, first Seniors game this afternoon..) I passed my Level 4 and fitness last month), we absolutely need experienced and conscientious referees like you in FFV and in Australia.
 
A very honest post and I am sure a situation many of us have found ourselves in.

It screams out psychological issue mate. You sound like you are expecting and in some ways simply waiting for problems to happen. Add to this it sounds like your confidence is low and you have created a horrible self fulfilling prophecy.

Strange thing the brain. You sound like you have set up a negative cycle for yourself - you expect negative events in a game, this causes you to lose confidence in yourself, leading to you not enjoying games. So you say to yourself "I am better than this!" So you try harder next game, but still expecting problems, which when they inevitably come ("oh not again!"), you blame yourself for what happens, lowering confidence and so on and so on. Trying harder most times really doesn't help, leaves the ref not relaxed or positive in mindset.

Is that on the right track of what you are feeling currently? Or am I a million miles off?
 
CapnBloodbeard said:
I think my card delivery is overly aggressive which I'm sure is one factor, but I couldn't help but wonder if I lost the feel for when to give a card and gave (or didn't give) them at the wrong times, thus affecting the match....
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I'm not sure quite what you mean by this...
  • Do you mean that your display of the card is overly aggressive?
  • Do you mean that you're being overly aggressive in choosing when to display cards?
If the first, look at the way some of the professional refs do it. Their typical method is to not get close to the player at all (you rarely see them closer than 2-3m). When they actually display the card, they raise their arms nice and methodically into a completely vertical position.

You're NOT showing the card to the player in question. They KNOW they're getting that card, don't exacerbate the situation. You're displaying the card for everyone else there.

There's a local ref that shows the card to players by putting it right into their faces. There's a reason why his games get out of control and he ends up showing a lot of dissent cards and a lot of double-yellow dismissals. Any time you antagonize a player by breaking into their space and not respecting it, that player is going to lose respect for you or is going to react (and likely poorly).

Point being: Your display of cards doesn't not need to be forceful and should not be forceful. Simply view it as a "hey, I'm giving everyone the information that this was a caution" moment.
 
HM, we go back a few years and your predicament doesn't surprise me, simply because I think you suffered from an overly quick progression.

There's a lot of merit in taking an extra year at each level as you move up. It gives you an extra years experience but more importantly it give you an extra year of your face being seen and you establishing your credibility in the eyes of the players, managers and clubs at that level.

A second factor is down to you and that is you accepting the comment from the inspector. He put a seed of doubt in your head to see if you would rage against his not so subtle put down. For me that would have gotten the reaction that I would show him, I would make him eat his words AND maybe he expected the same reaction from you. Instead you have let the doubts creep in and rather than focus on the stuff you do well, you are allowing your self doubt to feed in itself leading to more errors.

The third and perhaps the one over which you have most control, is the level you are working at. You have developed some expectations in relation to the players you are working with, their standard of football and expectation of you in context of how other referees operate. You may be bringing your near National Level refereeing skills and abilities to a much lower level of football and that is a culture clash which will always create issues.

Some on here and I'm looking at myself and Padfoot work on the basis that the game is the same from top to bottom and dislike EPL tolerances being applied to pub football. That may be some of your issue. You are trying to work at a National level of refereeing but in the context of a pub league and I can tell you that it doesn't work.

My advice would be as follows
1 - Swallow your ego (if you have any left after beating yourself up so much) and go work some games below the level you are permitted to work at. Listen to the players, listen to the managers, but most of all trust yourself and be willing to explain yourself

2 - Remember that progression? You made it for a reason, you are a bloody good referee. Focus on what you do well, reflect on what you don't do well and change it.

Card delivery too aggressive? Stop being so bloody thrusty. I want you to think "Was I thrusty?". Stand at an angle to the player, make eye contact but don't stare, raise the arm slowly in an arc and take 2 seconds to reach the top of the arc and lower the card the same way. Use the hand furthest from the player. No rush, no fuss, no nonsense. Talk to the player while you're raising the card, make small talk. If it's persistent infringement, shrug your shoulders as you bring the player in. Make it obvious that it's his fault not yours.

3 - Lower your expectations in terms of player behaviour, adjust your differentiation between careless and reckless, speak back to players as they speak to you every now and then (make sure it's between you two and not across 40 yards), smile more and keep your fitness levels up.

Finally believe in yourself

Apologies if I've rambled but I'm trying to watch Belgium vs ROI in the Euros and we're losing 3-0
 
Note, when I say look at how the professional referees do it, don't emulate the Russian referee in this Iceland v Hungary game.

He's very "thrusty" (good word choice @Brian Hamilton ) with his caution, and very over-aggressive.

He's leaving the whistle in his mouth, thrusting the card out, whistling constantly, and pointing aggressively at the player with his other hand.

Not good to emulate. :)
 
AlexF said:
I'm not sure quite what you mean by this...
  • Do you mean that your display of the card is overly aggressive?
  • Do you mean that you're being overly aggressive in choosing when to display cards?
.
Click to expand...

I developed a bad habit of...well, basically getting into a player's face and glaring at them too many times as I was carding them. I think I tended to run in on a serious foul and wind up taking a step or two too many. Not to say that's how it always went....but it did happen too much, and I wonder how much of that approach would rile up the entire team....just a tiny bit....then a tiny bit the next time......then suddenly everybody is fed up with me (and the player I upset by getting in his face could influence other players, and so forth.....)

For what it's worth, in Australia we always have a teamsheet so we don't get the player's name on the field (and if they put the wrong name next to the number on the sheet the team can face discipline. Not the referee's concern. It's just how it is here), so a quick card is easy to give here.

And this could also be my mindset on the day, perhaps my match preparation would leave me too 'fired up' and I need to be calm, perhaps. Getting the major decisions wrong seemed to be a lack of focus and I don't know why that was. Will respond to other posts later.
 
I effectively signed up to post a reply to you.

I rejoined after a number of years away from the game, and had my first games this weekend. They were just some suburban men's games, but I really enjoyed them, and apart from one minor discretion fail (I probably could have given a player another public warning instead of issuing a second caution) everything went very smoothly.

Having seen you referee (if you are who I think you are), I have no doubt you would have handled this level of football while half asleep and cannot possibly see where you'd have any problems.

I used to get into the cycle of "oh he's clipped him ... err ... maybe that was too soft for a foul ... oh wait ... I should have called that ... oh well ... too late now". Even if it's five seconds after a missed call that you finally arrive at a yes or no, you need to break the cycle of doubt. Just hit the whistle late. You'll know it was the correct decision, because the players will complain about the call being late rather than incorrect. "Sorry, I had a brainsnap" will usually appease them. That should start to eliminate any doubt in your mind and get you back on track to calling things promptly before any doubt creeps in. There is no way you should be walking off the field having knowingly not given a decision. You have all the information you're ever going to have as soon as it occurs, so stop, think. Yes or no? Yes, give it. No, get on with it.
 
The problem with delayed response is that you run the risk of a player deciding to get their own enforcement in because they believe you aren't giving the original foul.

And if you do it too often it will affect your match control.
 
I agree entirely. If there is no chance of advantage, play should be stopped immediately.

However, once doubt starts creeping in, the response time can get slower which can lead to decisions not being given. A late whistle is the only way to break the cycle, rather than simply deciding "it's too late to call now - I'm going to cop a caning from the players if I give it now".

It has been a number of years since I had this problem and this was the only way I was able to kill it before it completely ruined refereeing for me. I had to start accepting that a late decision was better than no decision and eventually the doubt cleared up and I started calling things quickly again. It was a very hard habit to kick.
 
@CapnBloodbeard , just reading through your OP, and before i'd scanned through the replies, the immediate thought that went through my head was that its a psychological issue. However,its one that you have gone partway already to solving, as you have recognised the fact that everyone else around you cant be wrong, and all the evidence points directly back to you. Thats not to say your abilities have diminished, but somehow, something has affected(effected?) the way you handle yourself in this environment. Brian has mentioned your encounter with the inspector as a possible catalyst, and the very fact that you have mentioned it yourself, i'd say you also subconciously (or maybe conciously) attach a great deal of value to what was said to you that day.
i've had a few issues myself and sought some professional help, identified some causes of them, and been able to move on (none of it refereeing based, but if i had been reffing at the time i'm sure it would have manifested itself in some way on the FOP)and ive left a few things behind, knowing that i dont have to punish, firstly myself, or those around me. Without wanting to sound mysterious, i'm sure the answer is closer to home than you may imagine.
 
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