Interesting that you think 3 cards for dissent is “unusual” - can I ask your thinking?
Sin Bin Cards....
- Thread starter Mustang23
- Start date
Take a look at my signature. 7 games in the middle, 2 sin bins + 1 dissent I recall post-game. 3 incidences of dissent in 7, or one dissent every 2-and-a-bit games - and that's arguably more sin bins/game than I've seen from the line.
So yes, 3 in one game suggests something odd.
Maybe you set a high-bar …
- I’m sure from your others stats (24YC) you’re not afraid and I’m sure you don’t get angels every week … 
If you are regularly having more cautions for dissent than you are for technical offences there is a very strong possibility that there is something wrong with your game that needs addressing. I got told that when I was going through promotion and it really helped me, I was letting way too much go (ex-player syndrome) and it was annoying the players.
one
RefChat Addict
Or the league you are refereeing in.
It is not unusual for some leagues which are not accustomed to strong refereeing to have a high level of dissent and a newer referee (to the league) having to use sin bin a lot more in his/her earlier games untill the players learn it the hard way that s/he doesn't take rubbish from players.
ChasObserverRefDeveloper
Regular Contributor
In the game I wrote about, two players steamed towards the referee shouting about a penalty award. He stood still, told them to back off, they kept shouting and ran into his space. Two to the sin bin.
Five minutes from the end the home captain shouted loudly "You have got to be joking, referee, you've got no idea"
Sin bin.
The sin bin is an excellent tool. If used correctly by All referees dissent will decrease. I have noticed that some ‘referees refuse to use it as they don’t agree with it. This is what causes the confusion, not the sin bin itself.
Every sin bin I have given this season hasn’t been contested (including a sin bin after a player was elbowed - I missed it due to my view being obstructed - at the end of the game he understood my point and was very friendly).
Sin bin is there to help us - but we all need to be as consistent as possible.
(Me included I am sure!)
Every sin bin I have given this season hasn’t been contested (including a sin bin after a player was elbowed - I missed it due to my view being obstructed - at the end of the game he understood my point and was very friendly).
Sin bin is there to help us - but we all need to be as consistent as possible.
(Me included I am sure!)
Two in the bin for failing to respect the referee's invisible line in the first incident you describe does feel over harsh to me.
Each referee can set their own bar of course, but I'm not sure I see the relevance of the referee stepping down a level in that incident. A non-stonewall penalty decision will generate complaints, I'd be very surprised at any level to just see a referee immediately bang out two sin bins for that initial response.
ChasObserverRefDeveloper
Regular Contributor
There is no relevance to his stepping down, other than as previously stated he had to prepare an approach to sin bin usage if needed.
The penalty was nailed on, a metre inside the penalty area; neither of the cautioned players was within 20 metres at the time, approached the referee in a hostile manner, and wouldn't calm when slowed by the referee standing still and giving the "hands down" gesture.
Sin bins were correct.
Maybe this is why I have low dissent count then.
Expectation as far as I've noted would be a) to stagger the two sin bins - send the worst offender, then see if that has the desired effect of helping the other player see sense and b) to at some point attempt to involve the captain. Ideally before the first one, but if not, there would definitely be a point before the second where the captain is told "I've already sent one to the sin bin, get this player away before he joins his teammate". And to pre-empt the inevitable response: If the captain is one of the two, you just say the same directly to the second player.
I know it's often used as a euphemism for bottling cards, but I'd be very disappointed not to be able to "manage" the second player down to a final warning. The time it takes to sin bin the first player ("take a name", show the card, persuade him to actually start walking) should be easily enough time for player 2 to get over the initial red mist and/or for the captain to arrive and save him from himself. The whole point of the sin bin is that it's supposed to apply social pressure to the players to not let their team down by getting binned for unnecessary dissent - if we're not leveraging that social pressure to change players behaviour, what's the point of it all?
Expectation as far as I've noted would be a) to stagger the two sin bins - send the worst offender, then see if that has the desired effect of helping the other player see sense and b) to at some point attempt to involve the captain. Ideally before the first one, but if not, there would definitely be a point before the second where the captain is told "I've already sent one to the sin bin, get this player away before he joins his teammate". And to pre-empt the inevitable response: If the captain is one of the two, you just say the same directly to the second player.
I know it's often used as a euphemism for bottling cards, but I'd be very disappointed not to be able to "manage" the second player down to a final warning. The time it takes to sin bin the first player ("take a name", show the card, persuade him to actually start walking) should be easily enough time for player 2 to get over the initial red mist and/or for the captain to arrive and save him from himself. The whole point of the sin bin is that it's supposed to apply social pressure to the players to not let their team down by getting binned for unnecessary dissent - if we're not leveraging that social pressure to change players behaviour, what's the point of it all?
That seems like a lot! Looking at my stats I seem to be quite far the other way - out of 16 supply league/FA comp/county cup matches this season, I've only had one sin bin and one non-sin bin dissent caution. Then again my cautions in general are low this season - 31 YCs in those 16 games, and 13 of those 31 YCs were from two games.
bester
RefChat Addict
I don't think we should be critical of a referee using the sin-bin tool for dissent.
'Managing dissent' wasn't working and the FA had to bring in greater deterrent of sin bins was used introduced in the first place.
If sin-bins were used for all clear acts of dissent there would be a lot less dissent.
Many refs in my local area won't use sin bins and put it down as AA or delaying the restart. They then complain that the abuse is getting worse.
'Managing dissent' wasn't working and the FA had to bring in greater deterrent of sin bins was used introduced in the first place.
If sin-bins were used for all clear acts of dissent there would be a lot less dissent.
Many refs in my local area won't use sin bins and put it down as AA or delaying the restart. They then complain that the abuse is getting worse.
And the problem with a greater deterrent is that it puts more pressure on the referee if he chooses to use it.
If you're not 100% about a big decision and you have 11 players running at you to tell you that the decision was wrong, is every ref also then going to feel comfortable sending that team down a man or two for 10 minutes while also privately thinking they might be right?
I find that I rarely give sin bins, but in the games that need them, there are usually more than one - usually one to each team.
What I like about it is the instant retribution and most of the time the players are pissed off with their own players as I tend to speak to their captains when my tolerance is getting too high.
Nevertheless - I think the sin bin feature is cracking on the whole and I’d love to see it in the pro game - especially used for stopping promising attacks?
What I like about it is the instant retribution and most of the time the players are pissed off with their own players as I tend to speak to their captains when my tolerance is getting too high.
Nevertheless - I think the sin bin feature is cracking on the whole and I’d love to see it in the pro game - especially used for stopping promising attacks?