Simulation - stop play, or carry on?

[RefJef]

Player dives (simulation) but play continues unaffected by the dive. Player to be cautioned for USB - attempts to deceive the referee (simulation).

Do you:

1. stop the game, award YC, restart IDFK , or
2. play on and administer YC at next natural stoppage?

(This is a genuine learning question from me, i.e I'm looking for the answer as I don't have the answer)

 

[JamesL]

Logically its either or.

Play on, advantage if it can be applied.
Or no advantage stop play..

Most acts of simulation occur in the defensive area so red zone in terms of advantage but if it happens in the attacking area and there is an advantage situation then, yes, why wouldn't you apply it and administer the disciplinary sanction at the next stoppage?

 

[TopCat]

Logically its either or.

Play on, advantage if it can be applied.
Or no advantage stop play..

Most acts of simulation occur in the defensive area so red zone in terms of advantage but if it happens in the attacking area and there is an advantage situation then, yes, why wouldn't you apply it and administer the disciplinary sanction at the next stoppage?

What do you mean by red zone for advantage?

 

[JamesL]

Traffic light system to use as a guide for when to play advantage.

Red - defensive areas (depending on level this can be all of own half.) Its recommended we dont play advantage in these areas because 1. Is it really an advantage to the team offended against 2. The risk of the advantage not playing out and the attacking team benefitting instead. In these areas stop play and award the free kick.
Amber - roughly the midfield area - take time, see if there is any real advantage possible e.g. counter attacking situation. Air on the side of caution but if genuine advantage, play it. Any possibility of not gaining an advantage stop it and give the free kick.
Green - attacking third - its not always best to play advantage but this is where advantage is best played for an attacking team as its the area most likely to benefit the team offended against and result.in a goal scoring opportunity/goal scored.

 

[zarathustra]

What do you mean by red zone for advantage?

Generally if you play advantage in the offended teams defensive third of the pitch, it won't be as advantageous as a free kick.

It's better for the offended team to be able to push their players forward and get their keeper to take the kick, than playing advantage and them having to try and work it forwards.

This obviously depends on the level you referee at, and the ability of the teams, but it is helpful, when I comes to advantage, to break the pitch down into thirds, defensive third is red, so pretty much never play advantage here, middle third would be orange, most players won't complain about a free kick here, but a good advantage could accrue. Attacking third is green, and if you see a decent advantage then it can be best to let's the offended team go for it and see if they can make it work.

 

[RustyRef]

As has been said, generally simulation will be in the attacking parts of the pitch so it is probably safer refereeing to give the IDFK and caution there and then.

As I've said before though, I don't really subscribe to the traffic light system as sometimes an advantage in the defensive third will be more advantageous than one in the attacking third. Rather I'd prefer people judge every potential advantage on its own merit.

I would be wary though, as when players "dive" to try and win penalties or free kicks it usually annoys opposition players and can lead to confrontation. Do you really want to play advantage and therefore have your back to the centre half tearing into the player who took a dive and the potential ramifications that may arise from this? Not for me, and unless it is a cracking advantage I'd be stopping it there and then.

 

[JamesL]

As has been said, generally simulation will be in the attacking parts of the pitch so it is probably safer refereeing to give the IDFK and caution there and then.

As I've said before though, I don't really subscribe to the traffic light system as sometimes an advantage in the defensive third will be more advantageous than one in the attacking third. Rather I'd prefer people judge every potential advantage on its own merit.

I would be wary though, as when players "dive" to try and win penalties or free kicks it usually annoys opposition players and can lead to confrontation. Do you really want to play advantage and therefore have your back to the centre half tearing into the player who took a dive and the potential ramifications that may arise from this? Not for me, and unless it is a cracking advantage I'd be stopping it there and then.

I'd say taking each on their own merit and traffic light system go hand in hand.
Truth is its good advice to be more cautious in the defensiveareas than in the attacking. Paticularly at the levels we all referee at.
I wouldnt say red zone is no go full stop for advantage, all I am saying is its got to look a bloody good one if I am to risk it so tread carefully in that area.

 

[RustyRef]

I'd say taking each on their own merit and traffic light system go hand in hand.
Truth is its good advice to be more cautious in the defensiveareas than in the attacking. Paticularly at the levels we all referee at.
I wouldnt say red zone is no go full stop for advantage, all I am saying is its got to look a bloody good one if I am to risk it so tread carefully in that area.

Yes, I agree to an extent. The point I am making is a situation where the keeper catches the ball from a corner and rolls it out to someone in the right back position with space to run into may well be more of an advantage than where a player is fouled in the final third but has 8 defending players goal side of him. One is, textbook speaking, red but the other is green, whereas in reality they are the other way around.

 

[Peter Grove]

Yes, I agree to an extent. The point I am making is a situation where the keeper catches the ball from a corner and rolls it out to someone in the right back position with space to run into may well be more of an advantage than where a player is fouled in the final third but has 8 defending players goal side of him. One is, textbook speaking, red but the other is green, whereas in reality they are the other way around.

Yes, but that's what everyone who has mentioned the "traffic light" system has also said. It's only a rough guideline to be adjusted as circumstances merit, not a mandatory rule. I don't particularly like the traffic light metaphor, I prefer to simply say that the closer the offence is to the offended team's own goal, the less chance there is of a real advantage accruing but bearing in mind that, as you point out, the advantage might still be applicable (or not, as the case may be) no matter where it happens.

 

[Padfoot]

Generally speaking, the only time an advantage in the defensive third is worthwhile, is when the GK has the ball in hand and is about to launch it upfield.......otherwise, far safer to just give the FK.

 

[CapnBloodbeard]

Same as any other advantage. If that player didn't take a dive, but committed a foul against the opponent - would you stop play?

If his team has possession, you MUST stop play. Otherwise, only allow play to continue if that's a better option for the other team than stopping play.

Bear in mind players may cop reprisals after taking a dive - you probably don't want that player AND the player he just tried to get sent off together behind your back as you run up the field and they think you're not going to do anything about it.

Usually you'll stop play unless the opposing team has clear possession PLUS opportunity. In the PA? They probably won't have that unless they have a counter with 40-50 yards of open space, or the ball is kicked upfield and they retain possession PLUS an opportunity to do something with it.

 

[santa sangria]

Match control has to be a big factor here. It's not often we YC for simulation. Chances are, if it was blatant, defenders are appealing, there may be multiple players on the floor. If the ball is with the defence or GK in their defensive third, I am really struggling to imagine a scenario where you wouldn't be wise to blow, ID the player, get straight to the player(s) and take the heat out of the game. If the GK has the ball and is going big you are going to be waiting seconds and seconds for possible advantage. Can't see it here.

Maybe if there's been a corner and you can see there's an overload breakaway with clear possession...? Even then you are looking at an 80m sprint IF the advantage pans out. OK, I would do it!

I was just reading the "trailing eye" technique line in the observer guidelines. The idea is familiar but I haven't found any detailed explanation - so how can trailing eye help here?

 

[Grasshopper]

I think most teams would prefer to take the FK over the advantage. As it offers a sense of justice and there is a definite gain. To that end the only advantage that works is a clear goal scoring opportunity. IMO.

 

[SLI39]

This actually raises an interesting point about the culprits of simulation, particularly at professional level. I believe many defenders are just as wily about getting defensive free kicks as attackers are in the opposition's penalty box/dangerous areas. I would like a referee to give a defensive yellow card/IFK once in a while for those corner situations where the player slumps under no pressure. Often it relates to time wasting, too. Play advantage if possible, of course.

 

[CapnBloodbeard]

True. Plenty of simulation happens in the middle of the field as well.

 

[Mintyref]

True. Plenty of simulation happens in the middle of the field as well.

Absolutely, @Sheffields Finest and I have been getting away with it for years

 

[AdamG]

Player dives (simulation) but play continues unaffected by the dive. Player to be cautioned for USB - attempts to deceive the referee (simulation).

Do you:

1. stop the game, award YC, restart IDFK , or
2. play on and administer YC at next natural stoppage?

(This is a genuine learning question from me, i.e I'm looking for the answer as I don't have the answer)

Number 1 for me.

Can you imagine how difficult it'd be to sell a yellow for simulation a few minutes later...

Simulation's often given because a decision has to be made, dive or penalty (usually). I can't see it being easy to apply option 2 successfully.

 

[Peter Grove]

It's a classic YHTBT situation. As various people have said if there was a true advantage to the opponents of the player guilty of simulation, you could play the advantage but in many cases there wouldn't be a good enough advantage so you would stop play. While there are some parts of the Law that mandate a specific course of action for a specific situation, there are other facets of the Law that can give rise to situations where it isn't possible to say ahead of time that you must necessarily choose one particular course of action over another. Stopping play for an offence or letting play continue by applying the advantage is most definitely one of those that you can't call ahead of time.

I'm not sure that selling a "deferred" yellow for simulation is that much more difficult than selling it for any other offence. Players usually put on a show of puzzlement and/or irritation any time you come back to caution someone after playing the advantage, it doesn't seem to matter what it was for.

 

[GraemeS]

I have seen a defender cautioned when he was under pressure in defence and went down easily just outside his own PA to try and buy some breathing room. Referee on the day chose to blow up and give the FK immediately, though I think it was because the player in question deliberately fell on the ball and handballed it, rather than actually for a simulation offence.

But I can certainly see how this could have been a dive where playing on would have been the more preferred option. Although having said that, it would be very very easy to sell giving nothing and just letting play continue.

 

[SLI39]

On a side issue, on Saturday the number of complaints (verging on dissent) I got for giving free kicks rather than playing advantage in red zone areas was amazing. The level of understanding is generally very poor (this was U15s; in fairness, quite a fast-paced match) because, on the other hand, I once tried to play advantage and came back when no progress was made in field; parents reacted, and the home manager actually, to his credit, spoke up to defend my decision.