The Ref Stop

Shouting/Appealing

The Ref Stop
I had one girl call for handball three separate times. On the third I called out: "not deliberate, hands in natural position". She then said "Sorry ref, you don't mind me appealing though?" I replied "As long as you don't mind me ignoring it". No problems. So many player appeals are neither dissent nor an attempt to bully the ref but just an instinctive ( and hopeful) response. These you can ignore. It's the needling, sarcastic ones you need to crack down on...give a warning, and the second they cross the line into dissent, jump on them with a card.
 
Thanks for all replies. Trying to be honest here. Obviously I'm a new ref, so not so experienced. I suspect though I'm getting my calls correct in the first 15 mins of a game. They are just trying it on, and are used (at this level) to getting away with fouls, and don't like it when I call them. Next time soemone disputes my answer to an appeal, then I'm going straight to sin bin, rather than further chat...
 
marshr02 said:
Thanks for all replies. Trying to be honest here. Obviously I'm a new ref, so not so experienced. I suspect though I'm getting my calls correct in the first 15 mins of a game. They are just trying it on, and are used (at this level) to getting away with fouls, and don't like it when I call them. Next time soemone disputes my answer to an appeal, then I'm going straight to sin bin, rather than further chat...
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I would suggest a stepped approach.
1) quiet word in passing
2) bring player in with captain, explain to captains you have already mentioned in passing, anymore and that the outcome will be a sin bin.
3) follow through with said sin bin.

That way, no surprises, and also no complaints when matey does have a 10 min sit down.
 
At the level I'm at, over the past 8 games, the stepped approach hasn't worked very well. This is exactly what I tried on Saturday, but it only seemed to invite more conversation, and arguing. I will keep trying, but the conversation at each stage will be 'short and brief' compared to what's happened so far for me.

I've decided it's ruining my enjoyment, so I'm not putting up with it. I've also decided that part of 'my style' is going to shorter comms, and quicker to step through the process towards carding.
 
marshr02 said:
At the level I'm at, over the past 8 games, the stepped approach hasn't worked very well. This is exactly what I tried on Saturday, but it only seemed to invite more conversation, and arguing. I will keep trying, but the conversation at each stage will be 'short and brief' compared to what's happened so far for me.

I've decided it's ruining my enjoyment, so I'm not putting up with it. I've also decided that part of 'my style' is going to shorter comms, and quicker to step through the process towards carding.
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The key is indeed to say more by saying less.
 
marshr02 said:
At the level I'm at, over the past 8 games, the stepped approach hasn't worked very well. This is exactly what I tried on Saturday, but it only seemed to invite more conversation, and arguing. I will keep trying, but the conversation at each stage will be 'short and brief' compared to what's happened so far for me.

I've decided it's ruining my enjoyment, so I'm not putting up with it. I've also decided that part of 'my style' is going to shorter comms, and quicker to step through the process towards carding.
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If they want to debate just say "this isn't a conversation, all you need to do is listen. If you don't want to listen, then we can jump straight to a sin bin if you like.... *Silence*... Okay, this is the problem, this is what I'm asking/expecting/wanting/,.this is what will happen/the potential consequence if not... Comprendé?"
 
JamesL said:
If they want to debate just say "this isn't a conversation, all you need to do is listen. If you don't want to listen, then we can jump straight to a sin bin if you like.... *Silence*... Okay, this is the problem, this is what I'm asking/expecting/wanting/,.this is what will happen/the potential consequence if not... Comprendé?"
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Funny you say that about it not being a conversation. I say before the match to both teams 'I'll try and explain my decisions on the run if I have time, and I want to, but we're not getting into a conversation'.
 
marshr02 said:
Thanks for all replies. Trying to be honest here. Obviously I'm a new ref, so not so experienced. I suspect though I'm getting my calls correct in the first 15 mins of a game.
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One of the most challenging things I've found is second guessing myself. I tell myself now that if I'm in a decent position and have made a decision, then that's the right one. What is for sure is that nobody else there is likely to be more right about most decisions than you - everyone else has a vested interest and sees what they want to see.

So don't doubt yourself, or let others put pressure on you to do so. After that your personality will come out and you'll find your own ways of handling these things, probably fit for the person/team you're with. I'd personally avoid jumping straight in with cards, as that is quite an aggressive response and can cause other issues, but ultimately whatever works for you!
 
RustyRef said:
For foul throw appeals just reply with something like "a bit messy but OK", or "just about OK that one", they'll give up in the end when they know you aren't going to give it, whereas if you say nothing they will keep on at you.

For general appealing I don't think there is a lot you can do to stop it, but explaining why you are / aren't giving the decision can help. As I got more experienced I became more aware of players saying things like "got to try ref" or "can't blame me for trying", then you can have a laugh with them and build up rapport. They are probably seizing on the fact you are new and perhaps lacking confidence, and when that happens the captain will be telling all of his players to appeal everything (and I say that as a former captain that did exactly that). As you get more experienced and confident they will be a lot less likely to appeal everything as they will have more confidence in you to get it right. That's just human nature, think of it like trying to get served at the bar. If you know the bar staff are good and know who is next you will just let them get on with it, it they keep saying "who's next" and serve people who clearly turned up after you then you will start trying to get their attention (the same as a player appealing for something).
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One of the tricks I used when I heard a really stupid appeal was to shout out "REALLY, is that what you think" as a question to the player.

The other technique with the Captains is to tell them that their players constant appealing means to may ignore them when they have a genuine case. Tell them isn't it better to appeal for what they believe than for everything, otherwise their appealing become pure background noise.
 
marshr02 said:
At the level I'm at, over the past 8 games, the stepped approach hasn't worked very well. This is exactly what I tried on Saturday, but it only seemed to invite more conversation, and arguing. I will keep trying, but the conversation at each stage will be 'short and brief' compared to what's happened so far for me.

I've decided it's ruining my enjoyment, so I'm not putting up with it. I've also decided that part of 'my style' is going to shorter comms, and quicker to step through the process towards carding.
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They key thing is to be in control. Make it clear it is a one way conversation, not a discussion, and even say to them if they so much as say another word they are going in the sin bin. It isn't easy, even when you have 20+ years experience it can be a struggle, but you can't let them hijack what is essentially supposed to be a telling off.
 
I had one player appealing quite loudly for everything on the weekend, I told him it just sounds like he is yelling at me and that it might sound like dissent if it continued.

Next time he yelled he said sorry afterwards and didn't do it for the rest of the match.
 
Nothing wrong with appealing. Let's get that straight.
One of the best and most enjoyable challenges to refereeing is exposure to increasing levels of pressure on every decision. New Refs will handle it more naturally over time to the point that the players will sense your assurance at a given level of football. If your decision making is good and consistent, they usually settle down as the game goes on before ramping it up again in the last 10 minutes. Learn to embrace the game for what it is rather than change it
Game can only change top--->down, and no sign of that happening
And when it becomes dissent, just deal with it.... easy !!
 
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Big Cat said:
Nothing wrong with appealing. Let's get that straight.
One of the best and most enjoyable challenges to refereeing is exposure to increasing levels of pressure on every decision. New Refs will handle it more naturally over time to the point that the players will sense your assurance at a given level of football. If your decision making is good and consistent, they usually settle down as the game goes on before ramping it up again in the last 10 minutes. Learn to embrace the game for what it is rather than change it
Game can only change top--->down, and no sign of that happening
And when it becomes dissent, just deal with it.... easy !!
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I don't agree in absolute terms with your first statement. There are occasions I believe the players have been coached to appeal everything everytime, doing so in unison and loudly which will intimidate certain referees. A couple of times last season I've loudly warned teams that I've had enough of the nonsense appealing and next time someone does it, I'll caution for dissent.
Once it begins to distract me from my duties, that's my bar, and I don't really care what the players think.
 
marshr02 said:
I do love the game of football, but I do wish it had the culture of rugby:
www.walesonline.co.uk

Nigel Owens' legendary put down gets 1.8 million TikTok views in just one day

Owens' famous comment to Tobias Botes has been given a new lease on the video social channel
www.walesonline.co.uk www.walesonline.co.uk
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With every passing year it becomes more like pro football.
The 5 main principles of rugby (union) are at odds with that so, as a lover of both sports, it's gonna be interesting to see what transpires with the rugby "code' and how the RFU develop it over the coming seasons... 🙂

Edit: Sorry, there are 5 not 4. They are: Teamwork, Respect, Enjoyment, Discipline and Sportsmanship.
 
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marshr02 said:
I do love the game of football, but I do wish it had the culture of rugby:
www.walesonline.co.uk

Nigel Owens' legendary put down gets 1.8 million TikTok views in just one day

Owens' famous comment to Tobias Botes has been given a new lease on the video social channel
www.walesonline.co.uk www.walesonline.co.uk
Click to expand...
Sometimes I'd kill for a culture that let me tell players to just "shut up and play"

I cannot stand overzealous appealing, I'm autistic so tuning out noise just isn't possible for me, think the advice of speaking to the captain and then dissent and sin bin after is pretty solid. Also interesting what you say about the stepped approach, I think there are times where you do have to skip a few steps. Appealing isn't one of those times though.
 
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