A&H

Sheffield Utd V Newcastle

P

Paul_10

Well-Known Member
I got to say, how did the VAR not recommended a review for handball for the first goal. The same VAR who recommended a review for a dubious handball in Forest Burnley game yet a clear one in this case was not reviewed. Any logical explanations?
 
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Because it was completely accidental, his arm was down by his side. In previous seasons it would be a problem as accidental handling in the build up to a goal becomes an offence, but not any longer.
 
Maybe you could says why you think it's a handball? That would probably help as I can't see any reason in law to rule it out, and that's probably why VAR did not recommend a review. We know they had a good look at it too due to the close ball in or out decision.
 
So, if a ball accidently hits an attackers hand, and then falls to a teammate, who scores, the goal stands..... or does it need a pass from the attacker, ie Gordon, as in the case today for Newcastle.
 
st john said:
So, if a ball accidently hits an attackers hand, and then falls to a teammate, who scores, the goal stands..... or does it need a pass from the attacker, ie Gordon, as in the case today for Newcastle.
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The accidental HB rule only create an offense of the HB is by the scorer and the goal is immediate.
 
st john said:
So, if a ball accidently hits an attackers hand, and then falls to a teammate, who scores, the goal stands..... or does it need a pass from the attacker, ie Gordon, as in the case today for Newcastle.
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It has to be from the hand of the scorer. If from a team mate it is not an offence
 
JamesL said:
Maybe you could says why you think it's a handball? That would probably help as I can't see any reason in law to rule it out, and that's probably why VAR did not recommend a review. We know they had a good look at it too due to the close ball in or out decision.
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Simple, his hand is away from his body and the fact hitting his hand actually changes the direction of the ball in HIS favour which allows him to set up the goal.

Yes it's accidental of course but very few handballs are deliberate. No doubt in UEFA/European leagues that would be flagged up and rightly so.
 
Paul_10 said:
Simple, his hand is away from his body and the fact hitting his hand actually changes the direction of the ball in HIS favour which allows him to set up the goal.

Yes it's accidental of course but very few handballs are deliberate. No doubt in UEFA/European leagues that would be flagged up and rightly so.
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If you believe his hand was in an unnatural position, then you could try and justify this as handball. But I’d say it’s in expected position and he’s basically in a running motion.

It doesn’t matter whether he has gained any form of advantage from it or not

Bear in mind that handball no longer needs to be deliberate…….
 
Paul_10 said:
Simple, his hand is away from his body and the fact hitting his hand actually changes the direction of the ball in HIS favour which allows him to set up the goal.

Yes it's accidental of course but very few handballs are deliberate. No doubt in UEFA/European leagues that would be flagged up and rightly so.
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It might be away from his body, but it was very low and part of the normal running motion. Even if VAR thought it was a handball I don't see that they can get involved as it certainly wasn't a clear and obvious error.
 
RustyRef said:
It might be away from his body, but it was very low and part of the normal running motion. Even if VAR thought it was a handball I don't see that they can get involved as it certainly wasn't a clear and obvious error.
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Flip it the other way round, you be happy that is not a penalty if Gordon was the defender?

If his arm was right by his side then I would get it but not when its away from his body. I gathered him potentially gaining an advantage may be irrelevant(which I think is harsh)but it does not feel right that was not penilised.

Really wish this incident was the winning goal as it would be interesting too hear more opinions on it.
 
Paul_10 said:
Flip it the other way round, you be happy that is not a penalty if Gordon was the defender?

If his arm was right by his side then I would get it but not when its away from his body. I gathered him potentially gaining an advantage may be irrelevant(which I think is harsh)but it does not feel right that was not penilised.

Really wish this incident was the winning goal as it would be interesting too hear more opinions on it.
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Absolutely it wouldn't be a penalty, not even close.
 
Will_A said:
Could you direct me to where I might find this in the good book please?
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From what I read online, it appears gaining an advantage is irrelevant which I accept but feels wrong when it leads to a goal. Still think the arm being away from the body is enough for an overturn imo.

RustyRef said:
Absolutely it wouldn't be a penalty, not even close.
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Yet you thought the Luton one was a stonewaller?(I do think that is more of a pen going by the laws but can understand why people think it's not) And you wonder why people get so confused what is and what's not handball.

Mind you even if referee pundits disagree(Mike Dean thought the Luton handball was not a pen) then we got little hope sadly.
 
More importantly, what's the threshold for Serious Foul Play these days?
Player goes in with that level of excessive force in my game this Saturday and he has nil chance of kicking anything else for a few weeks

Worrying for the EPL this result. I'd be worried if I was them. FFP and the state of the game widening the gulf between the haves and have nots
I didn't get much enjoyment out of that level of opposition humiliation
 
Paul_10 said:
Simple, his hand is away from his body and the fact hitting his hand actually changes the direction of the ball in HIS favour which allows him to set up the goal.

Yes it's accidental of course but very few handballs are deliberate. No doubt in UEFA/European leagues that would be flagged up and rightly so.
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20230925_070632.jpg

Away from his body? Where are you expecting his arm to be here?

In terms of law this is not unnaturally bigger and is easily justifiable as a consequence of the specific movement in this situation.

Direction of the ball, yes the ball changes but I'm not sure you can say it was in his favour, the ball span backwards and he had to take a difficult touch to control it. It would have been easier and more in his favour had that not happened.

There really is no basis for this to be sent down from VAR. Not deliberate. Not unnaturally bigger. Not a goal scoring chance for Gordon. Not an offence.
 
Runner-Ref said:
Bear in mind that handball no longer needs to be deliberate…….
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Only if the ball goes into the net off (an attacking) player's hand.

In every other way, the spirit of the way in which the Laws are written shows that a handball offence stems from the notion or assumption that it was somehow "deliberate".
 
JamesL said:
View attachment 6842

Away from his body? Where are you expecting his arm to be here?

In terms of law this is not unnaturally bigger and is easily justifiable as a consequence of the specific movement in this situation.

Direction of the ball, yes the ball changes but I'm not sure you can say it was in his favour, the ball span backwards and he had to take a difficult touch to control it. It would have been easier and more in his favour had that not happened.

There really is no basis for this to be sent down from VAR. Not deliberate. Not unnaturally bigger. Not a goal scoring chance for Gordon. Not an offence.
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I completely agree that under law this isn’t a handball offence, but feels to me like another example of the law not covering everything, (which is an impossible job). The photo you posted looks like something out of a basketball game.
 
If whoever ref'd it gave that as a handball in real-time, do we think there would have been any/much debate about it?
 
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