Send off before kick off

[one]

As I was typing this I got a sense of deja vu, A quick search didn't return anything. Either way I am posting it anyway as it is timely for sin bin which should/could be applied the same.

After you enter the field to start the game, but before KO, lets say even before the whistle for KO, you send a player on the field off. Can that team start with 11?

 

[Ganajin]

Yes.
The player can be replaced by one of the subs on the list and number of substitution opportunities is not reduced.

 

[socal lurker]

Conceptually, no one is a player if the game hasn’t started.

 

[JamesL]

I see where you are going with this... In the hypothetical scenario I think you are suggesting a temp dismissal should be treat the same as a dismissal, right?

For a red card the answer is easy. Before kick off can be replaced. After kick off no. The sent off player is gone completely.

I think the difference with a temp dismissal is that the player can return and the intention is the team are impacted by losing the player for playing time so I think the spirit of the law means they miss the first 10 minutes and can come back on.

In real world another caution offence which is what a TD is would be shown a yellow (or just reported if early enough) I don't think you can then apply the rule for a red card to it.

 

[one]

I see where you are going with this... In the hypothetical scenario I think you are suggesting a temp dismissal should be treat the same as a dismissal, right?

For a red card the answer is easy. Before kick off can be replaced. After kick off no. The sent off player is gone completely.

I think the difference with a temp dismissal is that the player can return and the intention is the team are impacted by losing the player for playing time so I think the spirit of the law means they miss the first 10 minutes and can come back on.

In real world another caution offence which is what a TD is would be shown a yellow (or just reported if early enough) I don't think you can then apply the rule for a red card to it.

In terms if law, if you do show yellow for dissent and before kick off the manager asks to change two of his starting 11, one of which is the one shown yellow, what do you do. Note that he is not making any substations.

In terms of spirit of law, your angle is one way to look at it. But the other is that if you don't allow a change, It can 'force' the manager to get the player to get himself sent off so that they can have 11. Basically encouraging a further offence by the player, likely further dissent. I don't think this is the spirit of law or even common sense.

 

[RefereeX]

Does a change in the line up after team sheet submission not have to be for an injury or similar reason? Or is that a competition rules thing?

 

[ARF]

Does a change in the line up after team sheet submission not have to be for an injury or similar reason? Or is that a competition rules thing?

Competition rules. LotG only requires the names of the substitutes to be given prior to the start of the match.

 

[ARF]

If a named substitute starts a match instead of a named player and the referee is not informed of this change:
• the referee allows the named substitute to continue playing
• no disciplinary action may be taken against the named substitute
• the named player can become a named substitute
• the number of substitutions is not reduced
• the referee reports the incident to the appropriate authorities

This could be taken advantage of with a sin bin prior to kick-off - although if a referee sin bins someone before the match has even started and then fails to notice they've snuck one of the subs on so that they're still starting with 11, then god help us all

 

[ChasObserverRefDeveloper]

Does a change in the line up after team sheet submission not have to be for an injury or similar reason? Or is that a competition rules thing?

A competition rules thing - which varies in nearly every competition where I am an Observer

 

[RefereeX]

A competition rules thing - which varies in nearly every competition where I am an Observer

I mean it's almost irrelevant anyway, as there has to be no proof that a player has an injury, so in those competitions where it is a thing, a team can easily say 'injured in warm up' regardless.