Season is over ....

[GraemeS]

Well aware of it Brian. Just used an extreme case for observer mark and a typical/common (but not necessarily) reason for low club marks to raise a point.


Still, for me, too much conflict of interest impact for the referee and the club. I understand it can be managed and is in most cases, especially at higher levels, but why take the risk when you have a reliable independent source of information.

The example you gave with A and E bands should be ringing alarm bells. Either the observer are not marking correctly or the clubs are not. I know which one i'd rely on.

If "making teams happy" (even moderately) has any importance at all, then it should be one of the criteria in the observation manual and taken care of by the mark from observers. True that you are paid by the clubs, but the referee is not there to serve the clubs, s/he is there to serve the game.

I've said this before on here, but I think the idea that what clubs want is a referee who's left his cards at home is a real myth. What clubs want (particularly as you go up the levels) is a referee who looks after their players, is able to fade into the background when both teams are behaving, and who is consistent and doesn't do anything particularly unexpected.

 

[Monotone Whistle]

Clubs mark on more than just on the pitch matters, but also attitude, personality, etc. As Graeme says above, they also expect consistency even when it affects their own players. Any ref who is E for clubs is most likely annoying the clubs with their arrogance and lack of empathy amongst other things.

We should also consider that Club Marks are considered less weighted than Observers. As long as you're top half for clubs, then you're eligible for promotion, many referees have gone up on an A-C banding over the years, but it's often the case that the Observer and Clubs generally agree, hence A-A, A-B are more common. It is well within the referee's control to manage club marks to some degree by simply being open, honest and approachable as well as being a good on-field referee.

For me club marks are a necessary evil, but if you know how to manage it then it's not normally an issue.

 

[RobOda]

I can't quite get my head around club marks. Pretty glad we don't have them tbh.

 

[Yampy]

I don't think enough credit is given to the many excellent club officials who award club marks at Supply League and above. I've found many take their role very seriously indeed and while there's some element of 'jobsworth', their experience leads to a level of consistency not evident lower down the pyramid. A good marker will understand the criteria they are asked to mark against and will probably take some time to reflect rather than do it 5 minutes after full time.
In some ways is a decent counterpoint to observer marks but no means perfect.

 

[santa sangria]

I just got a summary of club marks and some select comments from last season that finished in October.

The marks for my ”difficult” top league that I can ref in were not good. It’s my first season at this level and in retrospect I had a hard time.

I think I handled dissent badly at the start. I’ve been a bit unnatural - maybe being polite/hard at the wrong times, and the players have been testing me.

I did have two horrible games with KMI mistakes in front of mentors/assessors and that affected my confidence.

The club comments are the weirdest though. It’s hard to seperate genuine thoughts from loser bitterness. A lengthly whinge about an off the ball incident the coach knew that neither myself or AR saw the start of, where the only choice I had was to stop the game because of the general rukus but neither central player had done enough that we’d seen to be booked. And a “worst of the season” which I’ll wager was from the bottom team when I triple yellowed the bench for dissent!

But of course there are patterns to the comments and my refsec chooses them carefully. Inconsistent foul line was in three and I think that was a problem for me. I struggled changing between leagues and ages game after game, I wasn’t always clear headed and worse, I let myself get distracted by the presence of my mentors and was second-guessing.

What I’m getting at is, club marks, while to be taken with a pinch, can also help us focus on development points

 

[Big Cat]

I just got a summary of club marks and some select comments from last season that finished in October.

The marks for my ”difficult” top league that I can ref in were not good. It’s my first season at this level and in retrospect I had a hard time.

I think I handled dissent badly at the start. I’ve been a bit unnatural - maybe being polite/hard at the wrong times, and the players have been testing me.

I did have two horrible games with KMI mistakes in front of mentors/assessors and that affected my confidence.

The club comments are the weirdest though. It’s hard to seperate genuine thoughts from loser bitterness. A lengthly whinge about an off the ball incident the coach knew that neither myself or AR saw the start of, where the only choice I had was to stop the game because of the general rukus but neither central player had done enough that we’d seen to be booked. And a “worst of the season” which I’ll wager was from the bottom team when I triple yellowed the bench for dissent!

But of course there are patterns to the comments and my refsec chooses them carefully. Inconsistent foul line was in three and I think that was a problem for me. I struggled changing between leagues and ages game after game, I wasn’t always clear headed and worse, I let myself get distracted by the presence of my mentors and was second-guessing.

What I’m getting at is, club marks, while to be taken with a pinch, can also help us focus on development points

Fair play Santa. It would be easy to come on here all bullish about promotion and what not, but only a minority would be as candid in response to disappointment. Maybe just trying too hard and consequently over-complicating things; at a guess

 

[ladbroke8745]

Considering I am not a level 5, I have been included in my leagues list of 5s as I am I the middle of a few development games and recently were told I would be in Cat A with average of 81 for club marks.
With that in mind, they have given me a div 1 middle for that league.
Looking forward to it.

Would love to know the bad marks/comments, though, as I feel I'd learn more about my game than seeing good marks.

 

[one]

What I’m getting at is, club marks, while to be taken with a pinch, can also help us focus on development points

Completely agree. I would love to get feedback, in terms of marks or written from anyone, neutral or affiliated to a team. If I am smart and honest enough I can separate genuine from bias and use the genuine feedback. What I have a problem with is for 'my superiors' to use feedback/marks from an affiliated source for my ranking without any means of separating genuine from bias.

And Kudos for the honest reflection.