A&H

Rooney penalty

Has anyone on here ever given a penalty AND a yellow for simulation - for the same incident ..?
 
The Referee Store
Our instruction/direction here in Ontario is that doing that is a no-no. If you (the referee) deems that there's a foul, then there was no dive/simulation to deceive you. Thus, no foul + caution for simulation possible.
 
And then of course, contact doesn't necessarily mean there isn't a dive either....

Generally though, if it was a dive, that's prevented you from identifying if the foul has affected play.
 
pankaye said:
in one word, no.
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Ok. What is the definition of a tackle then?

I have just started reffing and am trying to get my head round everything and this contact/no contact thing confuses me as I can't really find anything in LOAF to define it for a tackle? It does not include 'tackle or attempt to tackle'.

Eg. Player 1 has ball. Player 2 goes to 'tackle' him by playing the ball. However player 1 skilfully plays ball before player 2 swinging leg gets it. Also player 1 manages to jump out of way before contact is made. If he had left his leg there it would have been hit by player 2. Also by jumping out of the way the action has affected player 1 in his ability to control ball and continue with possession.
This was not a kick or attempt to kick an opponent.
I gave in direct free kick for dangerous play as there was no contact but if there had been it would have hurt!
 
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Personally (and I am sure other member will will agree or disagree) If you go in for a for a full blooded challenge at such speed as Stuckmann went in on Rooney, you have to get the ball.. Sure Wayne Rooney dived but the foul was committed because the keeper missed the ball completely and put Rooney off his stride

Craigofmilton said:
Ok. What is the definition of a tackle then?

I have just started reffing and am trying to get my head round everything and this contact/no contact thing confuses me as I can't really find anything in LOAF to define it for a tackle? It does not include 'tackle or attempt to tackle'.
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Here are a few definition
1. An act of playing the ball, or attempting to do so, when it is in the possession of an opponent
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/tackle

2. In association football, a player tackles an opponent by taking control of the ball from them. This is achieved by using either leg to wrest possession from the opponent, or sliding in on the grass to knock the ball away.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tackle_(football_move)#Association_football

3. When a player without the ball dispossesses an opponent with it.
http://worldsoccer.about.com/od/glossary/g/Tackle.htm

4. The skill of tackling in soccer is the act of a defender coming to meet an opponent who is in possession of the ball, engaging him, and then legally using a foot to take the ball away.
http://coachingamericansoccer.com/i...on-to-soccer-tackling-the-front-block-tackle/


Craigofmilton said:
Eg. Player 1 has ball. Player 2 goes to 'tackle' him by playing the ball. However player 1 skilfully plays ball before player 2 swinging leg gets it. Also player 1 manages to jump out of way before contact is made. If he had left his leg there it would have been hit by player 2. Also by jumping out of the way the action has affected player 1 in his ability to control ball and continue with possession.
This was not a kick or attempt to kick an opponent.
I gave in direct free kick for dangerous play as there was no contact but if there had been it would have hurt!
Click to expand...

your reasoning is sound. without knowing the full facts I would say correct decision in a DFK for foul tackle because it affected player 1 ability to continue playing the ball.

BTW If you have given it for dangerous play (or to use the correct terminology: playing in a dangerous manner) it should be an IFK.
 
I agree - personally I'd ignore the 'tackle' definition and focus on 'careless/reckless'. If Player 2 challenges carelessly or recklessly, even if he doesn't make contact, but Player 1 then loses the ball because of evasive action, that's a DFK every time. When this happens I tend to wait a moment and either loudly play the advantage (so everyone knows you've seen it) or blow up for the FK.

Of course, if it's reckless, you then go back for the caution. Can be a hard sell if no contact was made - but at the very least a good idea to make it clear that it was seen and you've managed it.
 
For me there's a pretty logical process to follow for anyone who has doubts about this being a penalty. Just ask yourself what would have happened if Rooney hadn't jumped? Clearly the keeper would have cleaned him out, in what would have been a pretty forceful tackle - there was immediate danger to Rooney because the keeper had no regard for his safety.
Why should the player who created the danger get off lightly only because of the opponents skill in taking evasive action?
 
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