The Ref Stop

Retake?

The Ref Stop
I suppose in law, as its written, this is a retake.
However, what, if any advantage have the two players stood in the opposition half gained here? - which is where I think @Brian Hamilton might be coming from.
 
Okay @Brian Hamilton, I'd like to think I'd blow my whistle for the retake before the goal was scored.
The law does say that all players must be in their own half at kick off and it is clear that two red players are not.
And I've heard it said too many times by coaches/tutors/observers to ignore their advice.
Besides, I'd be a bit narked if I allowed that goal and was subsequently marked down on an observation. Maybe those stories I hear are apocryphal?
 
Yampy said:
Okay @Brian Hamilton, I'd like to think I'd blow my whistle for the retake before the goal was scored.
The law does say that all players must be in their own half at kick off and it is clear that two red players are not.
And I've heard it said too many times by coaches/tutors/observers to ignore their advice.
Besides, I'd be a bit narked if I allowed that goal and was subsequently marked down on an observation. Maybe those stories I hear are apocryphal?
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Good luck with that one. You would have 89 minutes and 56 second of fun with match control. Yes you're right about the red players not kicking the ball. So you'd take action between your signal and the ball being kicked is what you mean.

What you mean is you would cancel the parade before it set off, not actually piss on it.

Now if it got to the stage in this video and you tried reversing your float back into the garage, your game would be fecked.

It would be this situation that would lose you more marks than allowing this goal. Allow the goal, receive advice on managing stoppages and restarts. Disallow the goal, get advice on lots of other stuff.

Love the word apocryphal by the way. Would love it more if I had a clue what it meant.
 
I fully understand what you're saying Brian and I see this as a 'dammed if you do, dammed if you don't' situation.
So yes, I'm hoping to cancel the parade but if I stand there and admire the player's handiwork, I get what I deserve. As I see it, that's such an untidy kick off. Being picky, there's 4 players not standing in their own half. Not gaining an advantage is probably true but I would suggest that the Red's left winger is having a good attempt at doing so. Imagine, if the ball had struck the frame of the goal and he was first to the rebound? (Hypothetical I know)
With a goal being scored, it turns into a KMI and doesn't seem right to have let it go, if seen.
Now, I see the sense in your advice and it may form my defence should an observer raise this point with me in future. It'll be interesting if you happen to be said observer. :angel:

Apochryphal - of doubtful authenticity, although widely circulated as being true
 

This is one from a few years ago. Several RBL players standing in opposition half at kick off including the player directly receiving the initial ko pass...
 
New laws update says kicker can be in either half. But yeah, both these examples have blatant players in the wrong half. The players in question would only have themselves to blame. I know to watch for this one now;)
 
Yampy said:
I fully understand what you're saying Brian and I see this as a 'dammed if you do, dammed if you don't' situation.
So yes, I'm hoping to cancel the parade but if I stand there and admire the player's handiwork, I get what I deserve. As I see it, that's such an untidy kick off. Being picky, there's 4 players not standing in their own half. Not gaining an advantage is probably true but I would suggest that the Red's left winger is having a good attempt at doing so. Imagine, if the ball had struck the frame of the goal and he was first to the rebound? (Hypothetical I know)
With a goal being scored, it turns into a KMI and doesn't seem right to have let it go, if seen.
Now, I see the sense in your advice and it may form my defence should an observer raise this point with me in future. It'll be interesting if you happen to be said observer. :angel:

Apochryphal - of doubtful authenticity, although widely circulated as being true
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Never seen a goal scored from kick off after watching/refereeing/playing more than 2000 games of football. Chances of it happening when I happen to be your observer at any point in the next 10 years, very, very slim.

Apocryphal = made up but might be true depending on who tells you
 
Brian Hamilton said:
Never seen a goal scored from kick off after watching/refereeing/playing more than 2000 games of football....
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You're obviously at the wrong games! :D

There's a youth team my son has played against several times, also ref'd them on other occasions. They have a tactic of if they are kicking off 2nd half or go behind that they will shoot straight from kick off and seen them score with it on 3 occasions. Usually causes a few grumbles from parents/coaches of the teams they play against "That's not football!" blah blah blah.
 
Incidentally, there's no way that ball took 3.2 seconds from being kicked to entering the net. I think someone at the BBC thinks the ball is in play when the whistle is blown, not when the ball is kicked and moves.
 
Peter Grove said:
Incidentally, there's no way that ball took 3.2 seconds from being kicked to entering the net. I think someone at the BBC thinks the ball is in play when the whistle is blown, not when the ball is kicked and moves.
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Does time not start on the referees whistle? I have usually started both my watches before signalling start of play.
 
Goal for me, yes when you freeze frame the actual kick there are 2 yellows in the wrong half and 2 reds in the wrong half but overall game management, you disallow that "because 2 players of each team where in the wrong half" then lets hope the other 90 odd mins of your game is perfection, I can understand and accept reasoning behind saying no, some players were in the wrong half, but to me that's finding a reason to chalk the goal off, when, only my humble opinion, we should be saying yip, you know what, I can allow that
different maybe if the whole opposing team and coaches surround you going tonto, (of course am not going to say I base my decision on opponent reaction) but (having very much inside knowledge on this game), the only murmur of discontent in real time was the Clydebank tech area to their own goalkeeper. Disallow that and you have been in tune with the occasion
 
James Long said:
Does time not start on the referees whistle? I have usually started both my watches before signalling start of play.
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OK then, riddle me this - what happens if, after you blow your whistle but before the kick-off is taken, there is a delay? Let's say (as in this incident) you notice several players have jumped the gun and are already in the opponent's half so you blow your whistle again before the ball is kicked. They take some time to come back and then start arguing the toss. Some minutes go by. Did the game start back when you first blew your whistle and is this now all part of the elapsed game time? If so, you've got a whole bunch of stoppage time to allow for, and that's even before any substitutions, injuries, time-wasting etc that might happen during the rest of the half.

Maybe I've got this wrong but I would always blow my whistle first, then start my timing from when the player kicked the ball. I'll give you another example - in a U-12 game I once had to have a team retake the kick-off 3 times before they got it right. As far as I was concerned the game didn't start until the kick-off was successfully taken, which was possibly as much as a couple of minutes after I'd blown my whistle the first time.
 
Like James, my watches are started then I blow the whistle. The other way round would see me potentially fumbling to start the watches whilst the ball is in play. That 1 or 2 seconds could see you miss something vital- like a Vinnie Jones tackle! Or indeed a goal. Or that the watches didn't start properly ....and you don't notice for a fair while.....
 
Peter Grove said:
OK then, riddle me this - what happens if, after you blow your whistle but before the kick-off is taken, there is a delay? Let's say (as in this incident) you notice several players have jumped the gun and are already in the opponent's half so you blow your whistle again before the ball is kicked. They take some time to come back and then start arguing the toss. Some minutes go by. Did the game start back when you first blew your whistle and is this now all part of the elapsed game time? If so, you've got a whole bunch of stoppage time to allow for, and that's even before any substitutions, injuries, time-wasting etc that might happen during the rest of the half.

Maybe I've got this wrong but I would always blow my whistle first, then start my timing from when the player kicked the ball. I'll give you another example - in a U-12 game I once had to have a team retake the kick-off 3 times before they got it right. As far as I was concerned the game didn't start until the kick-off was successfully taken, which was possibly as much as a couple of minutes after I'd blown my whistle the first time.
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Personally, I think you'd have to make allowance for time lost. Do you stop your watch after a goal has been scored? As all of the above could also happen after a goal. Multiple times in fact at u12.

And if they want to argue the toss over a kick off then we might be looking at dissent so they have a tricky 90/45 mins ahead as they'll be restarting on a caution.

At the very start of the game I MIGHT consider restarting my watches if the delay is excessive so that I dont have to account for it at half/fulltime but I'd still start them again before blowing my whistle.

I try to blow my whistle on the start of the second watch.
 
I start both watches, check that that no player has moved from where they should be, then blow the whistle. That takes 3-4 seconds at most, so effectively on my watch the game is finished on 89:96 rather than 90:00. It really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, and better that you do this than be looking at your watched as play has already started and end up missing something critical.

The difference is when I'm fourth official, I then start if bang on the whistle so that I can be sure the board goes up right on 90 minutes.
 
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