The Ref Stop

Restart for offence by substitute off the FOP

one

one

RefChat Addict
Ball is in play in the penalty area of the Green team. Green substitute standing in his technical area yells out something clearly offensive/insulting at the opponent's manager who is in his own TA. You stop play to send off the said substitute. How and where do you restart play after the send off?
 
The Ref Stop
It seems like most of these 'advanced exam questions' involve someone entering, leaving or already off the FOP
The easy answer would be, ignore the offence because I'm not 100% haha :confused:
 
RyantheRef said:
I don't stop play. I wait until a natural stoppage and send the substitute off.
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Is that because you don't know what/where the restart is if you stopped play or is it because you enjoy watching ensuing fights when you don't stop flashpoints? ;) :P

bester said:
As @one is asking the question there's probably no clear answer in the laws of the game ;)
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I have a very poor track record :)

JamesL said:
On the boundary nearest to where the offence was committed
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What is the restart and which law/clause would you justified with?
 
one said:
Is that because you don't know what/where the restart is if you stopped play or is it because you enjoy watching ensuing fights when you don't stop flashpoints? ;):p

I have a very poor track record :)

What is the restart and which law/clause would you justified with?
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Idfk.

An indirect free kick is awarded if a player:
• is guilty of dissent, using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or
gestures or other verbal offences
 
JamesL said:
Apparently so
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Depends on the temperament of the game and reaction to the comment but I'd be inclined to wait for a stoppage or play an advantage for the attack. Suddenly telling a team you have to retreat to halfway because of the opposition name calling wouldn't do wonders for match control imo. Not that it would be wrong, but it would confuse the hell out of everyone, rightly or wrongly.
 
JH said:
Depends on the temperament of the game and reaction to the comment but I'd be inclined to wait for a stoppage or play an advantage for the attack. Suddenly telling a team you have to retreat to halfway because of the opposition name calling wouldn't do wonders for match control imo. Not that it would be wrong, but it would confuse the hell out of everyone, rightly or wrongly.
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RyantheRef said:
This is why I would wait for a natural stoppage in play.
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Guys, I am not in disagreement with you. The OP says you stop play what is the restart so I answered the scenario.
I actually had drafted to say but lets think about the situation, can we afford to keep play moving? There are some obvious threats to match control though, and potential for further misconduct so we have to take each situation on merit. One offinabus between TA could turn in to a mass brawl, it may turn in to nothing. BUT if you stop play the restart is idfk on the boundary line.
 
JamesL said:
Guys, I am not in disagreement with you. The OP says you stop play what is the restart so I answered the scenario.
I actually had drafted to say but lets think about the situation, can we afford to keep play moving? There are some obvious threats to match control though, and potential for further misconduct so we have to take each situation on merit. One offinabus between TA could turn in to a mass brawl, it may turn in to nothing. BUT if you stop play the restart is idfk on the boundary line.
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I'm not saying you are wrong. You're clearly right. I'm disagreeing with the decision that is being made for me in OP ;)
 
JamesL said:
Guys, I am not in disagreement with you. The OP says you stop play what is the restart so I answered the scenario.
I actually had drafted to say but lets think about the situation, can we afford to keep play moving? There are some obvious threats to match control though, and potential for further misconduct so we have to take each situation on merit. One offinabus between TA could turn in to a mass brawl, it may turn in to nothing. BUT if you stop play the restart is idfk on the boundary line.
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I agree with you, that's why I said 'not that it would be wrong'. I was just thinking practically about the scenario.
 
JamesL said:
Idfk.

An indirect free kick is awarded if a player:
• is guilty of dissent, using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or
gestures or other verbal offences
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Given that law 12 clearly distinguishes between players and substitutes, this does not apply to the OP.
 
one said:
Given that law 12 clearly distinguishes between players and substitutes, this does not apply to the OP.
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I am not sure if you are saying it is direct but that is at odds with the ifab clarification issued in 2016 which states....

If the referee stops play for acts of dissent, offensive, insulting or abusive language, etc.
play is restarted with an indirect free kick.

There was also a faqs document produced thst stated all verbal offences were idfk so whilst law 12 states player, there isnt any alternative guidance to state that would be different for substitute, substituted player or team official..
 
So the correct restart would be an IDFK as the incident happened off the field of play. I need to read up on this as I thought the free kick was taken where the ball was. Looks like I am rereading law 12 tonight.
So if the ball is in play and a player doesn't get a foul and is then abusive to the ref the restart after taking his name and binning him would be indirect?
 
Tino Best said:
So the correct restart would be an IDFK as the incident happened off the field of play. I need to read up on this as I thought the free kick was taken where the ball was. Looks like I am rereading law 12 tonight.
So if the ball is in play and a player doesn't get a foul and is then abusive to the ref the restart after taking his name and binning him would be indirect?
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Not quite. In this instance, I believe, its an idfk as it is a verbal offence. Dfk offences can still be given, and indeed a penalty if the boundary they are on belongs to the PA.

• If, when the ball is in play:
• a player commits an offence against a match official or an opposing player,
substitute, substituted or sent off player, or team official outside the field
of play or
• a substitute, substituted or sent off player, or team official commits an
offence against, or interferes with, an opposing player or match official
outside the field of play,
play is restarted with a free kick on the boundary line nearest to where the
offence/interference occurred; a penalty kick is awarded if this is a direct free
kick offence within the offender’s penalty area.

There were some offences where restarts were awarded at the location of the ball but pretty much all are now at the location of the offence, with the exception of offences occurring within the PA.
 
JamesL said:
I am not sure if you are saying it is direct
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No. Its only direct if the sub interferes with play. I agree with you that it should be IFK from the boundary line closest to the offence. However @bester eluded to my point earlier that this is not supported by lotg even though it is the intent.

A few years ago when this was a dropped ball from the location of the ball it was simple and clear albeit unfair. Now they have made it fair and as usual poor/incomplete in wording it, even after multiple attempts over the last couple of years. The is a specific section at the end of law 12 (which you quoted) covering these scenarios (ball in/out of play, offence on/off the FOP, offender/offended being a player/sub/team official/match official...). You would expect the exact scenario in OP would be covered there. The type of restart and location is not covered when the offence is against a team official.

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