A&H

Restart after restart

Big Cat

Big Cat

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Level 4 Referee
Ball out of play for a goal kick
Before play is restarted, player commits an act of dissent towards AR
AR raises flag to indicate offence committed, but R fails to notice and allows play to restart
AR maintains flag in air (no buzzers)
Ball goes out of play for a throw in
R notices flag. AR communicates caution for dissent
How is play restarted?

Alternatively, let's say the R stopped play to find out why the AR was flagging, how would play then restart after the caution for dissent was given?
 
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Big Cat said:
Ball out of play for a goal kick
Before play is restarted, player commits an act of dissent towards AR
AR raises flag to indicate offence committed, but R fails to notice and allows play to restart
AR maintains flag in air (no buzzers)
Ball goes out of play for a throw in
R notices flag. AR communicates caution for dissent
How is play restarted?

Alternatively, let's say the R stopped play to find out why the AR was flagging, how would play then restart after the caution for dissent was given?
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Restart in first one is TI, caution applied.

Second would be IDFK from position of player committing offence. I've actually given that in a Sunday League game, just got the restart position wrong, not that anyone would have known and it was my only time in 4 seasons.
 
A few considerations here but the main one for me is the referee can not change decision after restart. So I would nullify the goal kick restart (as the offence occured before it) so that I can caution for the dissent. Then restart with goal kick.

Analogy would be an offside flag I missed and the ball is kicked out by defender for a throw in. Attacker takes throw in with all this happening in quick succession. Ball goes out again and now I notice the offside flag. I go back for the IFK for offside.

Having said that no one is going to bat an eyelid if you caution for dissent and restart with the outcome of the throw in.
 
Law 5:
Except as outlined in Law 12.3 and the VAR protocol, a disciplinary sanction
may only be issued after play has restarted if another match official had
identified and attempted to communicate the offence to the referee before play
restarted; the restart associated with the sanction does not apply

I think as one says, if you notice and ball in play you have to nullify that play and to back to GK.

Also if it's at another stoppage then restart from that stoppage.

What you can't do is give an idfk unless the offence has occurred during that play.
 
I don't think you would need to go back to the previous restart. Logically, the player is just being shown the caution later than he should have been - that doesn't mean the restart was incorrect.

Imagine if R missed the flag, the goalkick is taken, and play continues until a foul is committed by a defender in the PA. It would be a disaster to go back to the goal kick. I would deal with the penalty and any sanctions arising from that, and then call the earlier dissenter out and deal with them. Hopefully it's their first yellow!
 
santa sangria said:
Just being shown the caution later…?

That logic fails with red cards, no?
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Why does the logic fail? So long as the AR was attempting to communicate the need for disciplinary sanction.

IRL example. Ball out of play for GK, striker out of earshot calls the lino a cheating Micky hunt. Lino flags, but your back is to him, GK is taken long, lino still communicating but no one has seen.

Ball goes out for GK to opposition. You now spot lino landing NPAS.

You go over, ask lino why there's a helicopter in the middle of the pitch, and he says well matey here called me a cheating Micky hunt just before that last goal kick.

You're obviously going to send him off, aren't you? I'd hope so.
 
Well, here's what happened...
I'm acting as AR1
1) sternly warn away defender he's on last warning regarding dissent towards moi
2) I also tell the technical area that lad is on thin ice
3) I give offside down near corner flag
4) defender has another pop for some other reason
5) I change offside flag to agitated flag to get R's attn.
6) play restarts idfk
7) I can't get Ref's attn. for about 30s (buzzer no worky)
8) I stand there next to corner flag, essentially out of the game completely...
9) ball goes out for throw in
10) R sees me, comes over and cautions defender for dissent
11) I insist on original offside restart, Ref agrees
In terms of competency, I certainly gained a half a mark on the assessment. R said it did him no harm either. The junior AR should've mirrored my flag
Home spectators enjoyed every minute of it!

What was also interesting. Defender was player/manager. He comes to dressing room after the game insisting that I can't indicate a caution for dissent as such. Turns out, he'd played 400 EFL games
Just goes to show, probably been behaving like that for decades and I'm the first AR to act upon the dissent now he's dropped down to Step 4
 
Big Cat said:
Well, here's what happened...
I'm acting as AR1
1) sternly warn away defender he's on last warning regarding dissent towards moi
2) I also tell the technical area that lad is on thin ice
3) I give offside down near corner flag
4) defender has another pop for some other reason
5) I change offside flag to agitated flag to get R's attn.
6) play restarts idfk
7) I can't get Ref's attn. for about 30s (buzzer no worky)
8) I stand there next to corner flag, essentially out of the game completely...
9) ball goes out for throw in
10) R sees me, comes over and cautions defender for dissent
11) I insist on original offside restart, Ref agrees
In terms of competency, I certainly gained a half a mark on the assessment. R said it did him no harm either. The junior AR should've mirrored my flag
Home spectators enjoyed every minute of it!

What was also interesting. Defender was player/manager. He comes to dressing room after the game insisting that I can't indicate a caution for dissent as such. Turns out, he'd played 400 EFL games
Just goes to show, probably been behaving like that for decades and I'm the first AR to act upon the dissent now he's dropped down to Step 4
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So the restart really ought to have been from the throw in, as per law.
Win some, lose some. You win in this one.
It would only be orange advice anyway I reckon as opposed to green so would have still got 7.0. assuming you got 7.5 for it then?

Edit: didn't realise you hadn't moved. That's an awkward one... Albeit if it had no impact then still think TI was the correct restart.
 
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I'd be wary of telling technical areas that a player is on thin ice, it can backfire. If he does something else and you don't call the referee the opposition won't like it and you will get it in the neck. If you call the referee and he decides to just give a warning, which shouldn't happen but does, that's your fault as well. If he's already on a caution and they then sub him, the opposition will argue that you have unfairly influenced the game.

If the benches are far enough away that you can tell one without the other hearing then all well and good. In my experience, AR1 yelled at the bench from half-way down the touchline that "your number 7 is close to getting himself booked, tell him to stop moaning", I heard it near the centre circle, and the opposition bench certainly heard it as they were on my back for the rest of the game.
 
Smarter is morelike “you can do us all favour and calm him down.”

I don’t see how “continuing” with the last restart fits with a goal.

What if Biggles is still waving for the dissent offence and the offender’s team scores instead of throw in. Ref has to disallow, what’s your restart then?
 
santa sangria said:
Smarter is morelike “you can do us all favour and calm him down.”

I don’t see how “continuing” with the last restart fits with a goal.

What if Biggles is still waving for the dissent offence and the offender’s team scores instead of throw in. Ref has to disallow, what’s your restart then?
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Depends who scores. Non offending team, goal stands.
Offending team, bigger problem. Just have to pray matey touched the ball then can go idfk from where he touched it.
Have to remember as well, unlikely as may be, a lot of football might happen in between so the existing restart might be the only option otherwise any amount of time in game could be lost.
 
JamesL said:
So the restart really ought to have been from the throw in, as per law
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Well I'm not entirely sure if restarting with the original offside and not the TI was wrong in Law. The discussion above is unclear
The restart decision was not changed even though the ball was back in play. The original restart decision was still enforced (offside) and I was not advising the R that the restart decision was wrong
RustyRef said:
'd be wary of telling technical areas that a player is on thin ice, it can backfire
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If it reaches the point where I say I'm gonna do something; one thing's for sure, I'll do it. It doesn't need to be complicated
YHTBT to an extent, when I informed the away TA, both TA's knew it was coming because I'd already told the player publicly in no uncertain terms. The R also knew because I'd mentioned it at HT etc. etc. IMO, it's a Referee thing to fret too much about the if's and buts. This was good Assisting and the R was appreciative and both benches could see it unfolding. Besides, it's only a caution and nobody could give a monkeys

FWIW, the observer hates the player in question. I didn't know that at the time, but to be a good Referee, you have to be a lucky one 🐈
 
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