Referees that only allow ceremonial free kicks
- Thread starter deusex
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Kes
I'll Decide ...
C'mon @Kes, I was just getting the Capn and Cheshire to venture out of their trenches and you started lobbing grenades again ...
Hey leave me out of this mate. I'm just having a debate with my favourite feisty geezer from down under.
He'll come round eventually when he realises that I'm right.
I think Cheshire's just not particularly feeling the luuuurve from the Capn at the moment that's all.
Cheshire Ref
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Last year at a local high level game, I watched a GK handle outside of the area (by accident). He then dropped the ball, and the opposing player put the ball down and passed it into the vacant goal as the GK and another defender remonstrated with the AR about the call.
When the goal was scored, the GK realized what he'd done -- he'd disadvantaged his own team by not paying attention.
My approach is, on these types of situations is that if I see the fouled player (or team) looking to take that quick advantage of a quick free kick (potentially at an empty goal), I'm not going to stop them (same logic applies to a quick free kick near half that puts a player in alone on a breakaway, etc). If they start dilly dallying, and are obviously not taking that quick one, that when I'll step in. Typically my general approach to free kicks is to ask the kicker if they want to play it quickly or if they want me to deal with the distance. If they want me to deal with the distance, I hold the whistle up over my head and announce it to everyone, and then make a point of showing the whistle to the kicker and repeat it, just for them.
Of course, as noted above, if there's misconduct, sucks to be you guys... you're on my clock now.
When the goal was scored, the GK realized what he'd done -- he'd disadvantaged his own team by not paying attention.
My approach is, on these types of situations is that if I see the fouled player (or team) looking to take that quick advantage of a quick free kick (potentially at an empty goal), I'm not going to stop them (same logic applies to a quick free kick near half that puts a player in alone on a breakaway, etc). If they start dilly dallying, and are obviously not taking that quick one, that when I'll step in. Typically my general approach to free kicks is to ask the kicker if they want to play it quickly or if they want me to deal with the distance. If they want me to deal with the distance, I hold the whistle up over my head and announce it to everyone, and then make a point of showing the whistle to the kicker and repeat it, just for them.
Of course, as noted above, if there's misconduct, sucks to be you guys... you're on my clock now.
deusex
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Can't agree more with everything Captain has said.
Still yet to see any other reason for not allowing QFKs other than "survival refereeing".
I approach the player nearest the ball and say "do you want to take it now or the wall back ten?".
As long as you do this on every dangerous FK the defending team have absolutely no leg to stand on
Still yet to see any other reason for not allowing QFKs other than "survival refereeing".
I approach the player nearest the ball and say "do you want to take it now or the wall back ten?".
As long as you do this on every dangerous FK the defending team have absolutely no leg to stand on
Kes
I'll Decide ...
Cheshire Ref
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Cheshire Ref
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Agreed
Russell Jones
RefChat Addict
Hmmm, for what it's worth, makes me really uncomfortable when this forum can't get consistent on fundamental and frequent basics like this one. There will always be some variability in refereeing style and 'creativity'*sigh*
Just agree to do things your own ways and leave it be. If it works for you, great. Others have their own ways. Entrenched position arguments are very boring, yet rather blinkered and often explosive.
Let's move on, please.
)) but one of the (many) benefits of the site could be to reduce the most frequent player complaint of inconsistency on the critical areas ......
deusex
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Perhaps a QFK is the wrong term. A non-ceremonial free kick then. Something like the below
Your QFK policy seems over-officious for the sake of it.
Why are you slowing down the game?
Kes
I'll Decide ...
Nothing to do with being "officious". It's to do with managing player expectations. As can be seen from the clip, the Chelsea goalkeeper was waiting to help set up a wall. That's exactly the reason why Henry did what he did.
As for "slowing down the game", that's just daft.
All humour aside most of you probably realise that "Don't go looking for trouble" is a mantra for me.
Too often doing the 'moral' thing - allowing them to go because it's 'restitution' (of a fashion) has bitten me, and bitten me hard, and on more than one occasion. In trying to do the 'right thing' I ended up with far more grief than I needed.
9 times out of 10 I'm on my own out there so it's self-preservation to an extent.
If you've never had an issue because of allowing a quick one and the goal being scored, and you have the presence/gift of the gab or whatever that X factor is to eliminate any and all issues arising from allowing it quick, I salute you. Genuinely.
I don't, so I work within my limitations.
Too often doing the 'moral' thing - allowing them to go because it's 'restitution' (of a fashion) has bitten me, and bitten me hard, and on more than one occasion. In trying to do the 'right thing' I ended up with far more grief than I needed.
9 times out of 10 I'm on my own out there so it's self-preservation to an extent.
If you've never had an issue because of allowing a quick one and the goal being scored, and you have the presence/gift of the gab or whatever that X factor is to eliminate any and all issues arising from allowing it quick, I salute you. Genuinely.
I don't, so I work within my limitations.
THIS.
CapnBloodbeard
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Well, by taking a quick free kick they still have the opportunity to line up a shot, don't they?
The only difference is that one is done with an organised defence, the other is done with a fully organised and prepared defence.
The only difference is that one is done with an organised defence, the other is done with a fully organised and prepared defence.
This very much depends upon the quality of football being played. At the PL level, set pieces are practised day in, day out on the training field. For them, the opportunity to score from a DFK is likely far greater than attempting a quick free-kick, although this doesn't preclude them from attempting it when the scenario is right (taking in to account the skill level of both attacking and defending players).
For the Dog and Duck team, the opposite is likely true, so if they are switched on enough to take the kick quickly, why prevent them - as long as you yourself are ready, of course.
What seems to have been missing from the above conversations is that, for me, the prerogative is for the team taking the free kick to request it be on the whistle (by asking for the 10 yards), NOT the defending team. Would you not book (or at least have words with) a defending player for delaying a restart by standing over a ball on a free kick (and preventing a quick free kick)?
CapnBloodbeard
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mikedn
Referee/Mentor
If a team requires a quick free kick then i have no problem, IMO the defending team should be prepared (more or less) soon after the whistle is blown.. but if the ball hits a defender and the kicker complains he's too close then i say "you wanted it quick, so play on" If the free kick is maybe a few yards outside the box i will always ask if ten yards is required and then i will inform the kicker and the goalie "on the whistle".
I will not allow a team to just take a "quick" free kick, without asking me first so i am then prepared
I will not allow a team to just take a "quick" free kick, without asking me first so i am then prepared
santa sangria
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This is really interesting for me. Our 11-a-side season doesn't start for a few months and we start courses in the next few weeks. This was going to be my first question. And it is one area I want to work on. I have been going far too ceremonial - and not asking the attackers.
"do you want to take it now or the wall back ten?" This is very interesting. Unfortunately I don't have an English, local language or universal phrase to go to here. And I can't imagine that line working for me. Any more?
I like the idea of getting 8-10 yards from the DFK position so you can easily step in if a defender does not retreat, or so you are close enough to question the taker if they want the whistle.
I also agree that in the Prem the taker wants ceremonial because they spend 10 hours a week preparing for their Roberto Carlos moment. But in lower leagues a switched on attacker is more likely to take a quick passing option - and we should be prepared for that.
And we have to ready to allow a quick free kick.
I strongly disagree with the idea a referee might not allow a quick free kick in order to keep match control.
"do you want to take it now or the wall back ten?" This is very interesting. Unfortunately I don't have an English, local language or universal phrase to go to here. And I can't imagine that line working for me. Any more?
I like the idea of getting 8-10 yards from the DFK position so you can easily step in if a defender does not retreat, or so you are close enough to question the taker if they want the whistle.
I also agree that in the Prem the taker wants ceremonial because they spend 10 hours a week preparing for their Roberto Carlos moment. But in lower leagues a switched on attacker is more likely to take a quick passing option - and we should be prepared for that.
And we have to ready to allow a quick free kick.
I strongly disagree with the idea a referee might not allow a quick free kick in order to keep match control.
CapnBloodbeard
RefChat Addict
Good approach. Glad to see you've thought it though, I think you've covered all the bases. By not getting too close, you're not unintentionally implying that it's going to be ceremonial.
I'd say one of the most likely QFK scenarios is when the keeper is out of his goal - quite possible, whinging at you. That's when you need to be careful to not only monitor the ball, but careful in how much you're engaging with the keeper. Anything more than a 'that will do keeper, it was a foul, back to your goal' (ie start discussing/lecturing) and I think that you've made it ceremonial, because you're now delaying the keeper.
I'd say one of the most likely QFK scenarios is when the keeper is out of his goal - quite possible, whinging at you. That's when you need to be careful to not only monitor the ball, but careful in how much you're engaging with the keeper. Anything more than a 'that will do keeper, it was a foul, back to your goal' (ie start discussing/lecturing) and I think that you've made it ceremonial, because you're now delaying the keeper.
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