The Ref Stop

Red Card

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ref11

New Member
Imagine this. A player elbows an opponent off the ball but the referee has not seen it. The referees suspects the player is guilty of violent conduct so goes to the offending player and asks "why did you do that"? He replies "it was the only thing that would shut him up"! Do you show him the ref card?
 
The Ref Stop
No.

If you haven't seen it, no matter what you think you know has happened, you can't guess at a potentially match changing decision.
 
As padfoot said, you still don't know exactly what he did to shut him up. Now if the question was "why did you elbow him in the face?" That would be an admission of guilt.
 
Only reason I ask is because David Elleray admits to doing this in his autobiography in a second division match, Barnsley vs Reading early in his football league career
 
Your right, he did. It depends on how you phrase the question and if the player admits his guilt openly. A player with a bleeding nose on the ground and you have all the evidence you need!

Would make it a simple decision to show the red for VC. How often do all the stars align though?
 
The David Elleray trick! A piece of genius if you ask me but I cannot advise it as it opens up all kinds of possibilities when it comes to appeals etc. Especially if some of the players/coaches know for a fact you haven't seen it. This can bring all kinds of retrospective action against you from your association if you are found to be lying in reports saying you saw something that you didn't.

I remember reading that in Mr. Elleray's book and finding it the most entertaining part of what was otherwise a very dull read.
 
I'm the 23rd minute of the game I found it necessary to order from the field of play, joe blogs, number 100 for athletic fc for violent conduct. My attention was drawn to an incident at the half way line where a rovers fc player was lying on the ground holding his face. I approached joe blogs and, suspecting him of VC, asked him why he had struck his opponent in the face to which he responded "it was the only thing that would shut him up." This admission of guilt convinced me he was guilty of VC. I asked his name and number and showed the red card. As he left the field he showed no dissent at my decision, further convincing me he was guilty of VC.

Would that stand up? I'm not so sure. You still didn't see it and just because he didn't complain doesn't mean he is guilty. You didn't see how much force was used. He could have touched his lips and then he fell over making the most of it?
 
We had a game where i was AR and all 3 of the officials (me included) apparently missed a head but. The home team were fuming but obviously we didn't see it so couldn't give it. When the player was subbed the other AR heard him say he did head butt an opponent but we couldn't take action.
 
It's a minefield.

Of course is it worse is to get an admission guilt from a player and do nothing. Hello retaliation at every moment.
 
If you didn't see it you can't give it IMO. Any retaliation should be dealt with accordingly. A good referee would get the match under his control again and any silly trips/retaliation would stop after a few bolllockings or cards
 
micky2001 said:
I'm the 23rd minute of the game I found it necessary to order from the field of play, joe blogs, number 100 for athletic fc for violent conduct. My attention was drawn to an incident at the half way line where a rovers fc player was lying on the ground holding his face. I approached joe blogs and, suspecting him of VC, asked him why he had struck his opponent in the face to which he responded "it was the only thing that would shut him up." This admission of guilt convinced me he was guilty of VC. I asked his name and number and showed the red card. As he left the field he showed no dissent at my decision, further convincing me he was guilty of VC.

Would that stand up? I'm not so sure. You still didn't see it and just because he didn't complain doesn't mean he is guilty. You didn't see how much force was used. He could have touched his lips and then he fell over making the most of it?
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The problem is that he asked "Why did you do that?" not "Why did you strike him?".........It would stand up because there is no appealing a standard misconduct report, unless they have video evidence! But the wishy washy nature of the report would raise some concerns in the CFA's discipline dept.

Only once have i had a similar situation......first game of the season, i saw a player raise his arm, punch it towards the opponent, heard the contact with the opponents chest, saw the player reaction.......i saw everything about the punch except the actual second the punch connected......i called the offender over and asked why he did that...he replied "he was pulling my shirt and wouldn't let go".....my follow up question was "So you punched him in the chest?"...player "yeah..." Me..."thanks a lot player, off you go!" and promptly dismissed him....no complaints from anyone, good club mark from his team.....
 
If you haven't seen it, but the player admits to having done it, of course you send him. Why is this even a question? "Yeah ref, I knocked him right in the jaw" or "I did it because..." is good enough.
 
Padfoot said:
The problem is that he asked "Why did you do that?" not "Why did you strike him?".........It would stand up because there is no appealing a standard misconduct report, unless they have video evidence! But the wishy washy nature of the report would raise some concerns in the CFA's discipline dept.

Only once have i had a similar situation......first game of the season, i saw a player raise his arm, punch it towards the opponent, heard the contact with the opponents chest, saw the player reaction.......i saw everything about the punch except the actual second the punch connected......i called the offender over and asked why he did that...he replied "he was pulling my shirt and wouldn't let go".....my follow up question was "So you punched him in the chest?"...player "yeah..." Me..."thanks a lot player, off you go!" and promptly dismissed him....no complaints from anyone, good club mark from his team.....
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I don't know where you referee but here, yellows and reds on standard misconduct forms can be and are appealed regularly. I feel your scenario is different since you witnessed the throwing if the punch and reaction as opposed to just seeing a reaction. Your scenario would easily be upheld regardless IMO.
 
You can't appeal a caution nor can you appeal a sending off for receiving two cautions in the same game.
 
Not so much normal but It is more out of hope than anything else the appeals. If you simply forget to say "I'm reporting you to the association" or "you are being cautioned for USB" they appeal although they never stand up since it was that person that was booked and it is only a technicality. It only appears to be at boys club level since the older ages you could get away with only showing a yellow. The only reasons you can appeal a yellow and it would have a chance of standing is 1)mistaken identity 2)didn't commit the reported foul or claiming the foul wasn't actually a foul
 
Xman said:
I remember reading that in Mr. Elleray's book and finding it the most entertaining part of what was otherwise a very dull read.
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just so i understand this thing about not criticising our fellow professionals, can someone please explain just where one draws the line.
 
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