RefSix

REA vs BC

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
Level 6 Referee
First one is possibly a bit harsh, but it so closely matches the definition of SFP, the ref had little choice
Second one, not much debate. It's the unnecessary aspect of the studs down the calf which makes it unacceptable
 
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BrumRef

Regular Contributor
Level 8 Referee
Agreed, all easy in hindsight with replays, very surprised the first wasn’t given when you go in with 2 feet most players would expect to walk
 

Tealeaf

Lighting the darkest hour
Staff member
Level 5 Referee
I saw the first one in real time and yellow is right here. Had he made contact with the Reading player then he’s gone. Equally had been off the floor with both feet he’s be in the dressing room

It’s the fact that he’s sliding along the ground that tips the scale the other way for me. There’s friction here and a natural deceleration because of it.

Off the ground he’s only going to slow down/stop when he meets resistance from the floor or the opponent. For me that’s where the endangering element comes into play - full body weight going through the legs increases/magnifies the force on contact with another surface.
 

santa sangria

RefChat Addict
Looks like no contact with the player in the first one, so yellow - surely impossible to give SFP.
Second one easy red if you see it. Nasty. And VC as it is not a tackle.
 

RustyRef

Administrator
Staff member
For the first one the player has taken a risk as he left the ground, but I would say the fact he pulls out before any contact makes it at worst a caution.

The second one I am struggling with. It looks nasty I agree, but the defender is looking up in the air when he makes contact and I think it is almost certainly a complete accident.
 

one

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
FIFA had (and I think still in use) a list of considerations for 'scaling' tackles. Using those will keep the first one on yellow and second one to red. That is also in line with 'what football expects'.

I can see why the 'i got the ball ref' mistake can be made on the first one.
I can also see how you can miss the second one having a narrow focus on where the ball is being played.
 

santa sangria

RefChat Addict
FIFA had (and I think still in use) a list of considerations for 'scaling' tackles. Using those will keep the first one on yellow and second one to red. That is also in line with 'what football expects'.

I can see why the 'i got the ball ref' mistake can be made on the first one.
I can also see how you can miss the second one having a narrow focus on where the ball is being played.
Here is the FIFA famous list of considerations. I'm not totally comfortable with it as it basically like another string of laws and easily confused with similar things from the LotG - but it is in use - and it is a great study aid;)
 
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QuaverRef

I used to be indecisive but now i'm not so sure
Level 6 Referee
There's an annoying expectation in football that any '2 footed challenge' MUST be a red card. Makes our jobs that much harder
 

Tealeaf

Lighting the darkest hour
Staff member
Level 5 Referee
There's an annoying expectation in football that any '2 footed challenge' MUST be a red card. Makes our jobs that much harder
I’d hazard a guess that this is partly because the first challenge is an exception rather than the rule.

Most will be of the off the ground, contact with opponent type. Ask someone to describe a two-footed challenge and that’s what most would give you.
 

Alex Rush-Fear

Well-Known Member
Level 4 Referee
I saw the first one in real time and yellow is right here. Had he made contact with the Reading player then he’s gone. Equally had been off the floor with both feet he’s be in the dressing room

It’s the fact that he’s sliding along the ground that tips the scale the other way for me. There’s friction here and a natural deceleration because of it.

Off the ground he’s only going to slow down/stop when he meets resistance from the floor or the opponent. For me that’s where the endangering element comes into play - full body weight going through the legs increases/magnifies the force on contact with another surface.
He only lands on the ground at the point he makes contact with the ball - at this point both feet are completely off the floor:
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It's 100% a red.
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
Level 6 Referee
Don't get me wrong. I'm probably not gonna dismiss a player committing either tackle on a Sunday morning
But the pro game is different and I'd expect (not necessarily agree with) a dismissal for both, without referring to the unnecessary FIFA 'clarifications'
Strange to hear Observers condone a 'lunge with one or both feet' when the culprit had clearly granted himself permission to 'take-off'
Just a very straight forward SFP at that level. Safety of the opponent was endangered, regardless of the outcome
 
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JamesL

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
Don't get me wrong. I'm probably not gonna dismiss a player committing either tackle on a Sunday morning
But the pro game is different and I'd expect (not necessarily agree with) a dismissal for both, without referring to the unnecessary FIFA 'clarifications'
Strange to hear Observers condone a 'lunge with one or both feet' when the culprit had clearly granted himself permission to 'take-off'
Just a very straight forward SFP at that level. Safety of the opponent was endangered, regardless of the outcome
The definition of SFP requires a lunge to use excessive force. The force used here is quite low. Even at full speed the intensity and velocity of the challenge is pretty tame and he appears to be in control, demonstrated by the fact he is able to avoid a collision with the player.
I'm in the caution camp. Fits into reckless definition quite nicely.
 

one

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
The definition of SFP requires a lunge to use excessive force. The force used here is quite low. Even at full speed the intensity and velocity of the challenge is pretty tame and he appears to be in control, demonstrated by the fact he is able to avoid a collision with the player.
I'm in the caution camp. Fits into reckless definition quite nicely.
I can see where he is coming from. SFP doesn't necessarily have to be using excessive force as long as it endangers the safety of an opponent. For me this one doesn't but it is close. I can see why one might think it does.
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
Level 6 Referee
I can see where he is coming from. SFP doesn't necessarily have to be using excessive force as long as it endangers the safety of an opponent. For me this one doesn't but it is close. I can see why one might think it does.
Yeh, I mean, should I chose to dismiss a player for leaving the ground with two feet, I don't expect an Observer to tell me I'm wrong to for doing so.
Like I say, if there's a bell curve of leniency, you can guess which side of the curve I'm on, but I'm expecting a pro player to have an early bath for this
 
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