questions re dissent

[haywain]

So you've used a stepped approach for what you consider to be dissent, you've spoken to the player, you've then spoken to him with his captain and then you've finally cautioned him

First question is what do you do then, if he does it again?

Do you start the same stepped approach as you did for the first card, do you shorten it to one warning then a second yellow / red or do you go straight to second yellow / red?

Second question, what would the expectation of an assessor be with regards to when to give the second yellow?

 

[Beezer]

Depending on the level of dissent ......after a yellow at the next stoppage he will get a proper dressing down , captain present , who will be given the option to sub him off if he cant shut up , you cant get much more final warning than that .

But no reason why you cant just smash a second yellow out ....depends how much he is annoying you I suppose ?

as for assessors ....so long as you have the game under control and are being consistent ???

lets let an assessor answer that one !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[svenny76]

No second stepped approach for me, I'd be telling him/her that if he continues then he'll recieving a 2nd yellow. Most people tend to calm down or others calm them if they know he'll be walking. There are a few who don't have the brains or ability to shut up, so just get rid of them.

 

[SM]

if the player has already been cautioned for dissent, next one is potentially the second caution. At best it is a warning (in the form of a final plea for common sense) to him and captain with the clear statement that one more and he is walking.

Certainly no repeat of stepped approach.

 

[HertsFinest]

For me once first yellow has been done, one more and they are off. No excuses.

Graham poll may disagree and dish out a third yellow before dismissing though!

 

[Padfoot]

Depending on the level of dissent ......after a yellow at the next stoppage he will get a proper dressing down , captain present , who will be given the option to sub him off if he cant shut up , you cant get much more final warning than that .

But no reason why you cant just smash a second yellow out ....depends how much he is annoying you I suppose ?

as for assessors ....so long as you have the game under control and are being consistent ???

lets let an assessor answer that one !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, what?

Since when is it our job to suggest tactics to the teams?

Stepped approach is largely a complete waste of time, may as well save your breath and get them in the book early doors.
If, after being booked once, they want to carry on in the same manner.....off they go.

 

[SM]

That's the sloped approach.

 

[HertsFinest]

That's the sloped approach.

Of the laws of the game as its also often known! Or less often as the case may be!

 

[Beezer]

Its just a comment I have used a couple of times in the past to get my point hammered home

normally delivered in a rather sarcastic manner

....im not actually offering a choice

 

[Brian Hamilton]

Sorry, what?

Since when is it our job to suggest tactics to the teams?

Stepped approach is largely a complete waste of time, may as well save your breath and get them in the book early doors.
If, after being booked once, they want to carry on in the same manner.....off they go.

@Padfoot is correct about the stepped approach and cases of dissent. if it's a player making repeated appeals or protests, then you might want to use a stepped approach but if it is an act of dissent by word or action, you must caution at the first instance.

Part of the caution procedure is to warn the player regarding their future conduct. It can go something like, you've been cautioned for dissent and we still have another 62 minutes to play. if you behave that way again I may decide to give you a second caution and I will send you off. If the player chooses to laugh at you at this stage or slow clap their hands together, then issue a second caution and dismiss.

That is an assessor's view and an uncompromising referee's view.

 

[SM]

The problem being that dissent is not always clear cut. Unless they do something dumb like sarcastically clap, that is clear cut.

 

[Brian Hamilton]

The problem being that dissent is not always clear cut. Unless they do something dumb like sarcastically clap, that is clear cut.

Yes it is. If they shout at you from more than 20 yards. If they wave their arms around while complaining. If they bounce the ball hard on the ground. If they run at you when you've given a decision. If they wag their finger at you. If they laugh sarcastically in your face or make loud sarcastic comments about you, your fitness or your decision making,

In fact if they do anything that someone on the touchline thinks that the player is strongly disagreeing with your decision, then that's when they have strayed into dissent

 

[HertsFinest]

To me dissent is quite clear cut. Anything that is visibly or audibly disagreeing with a referees decision is dissent in my book. Questioning why something was a fk or similar in a sensible manner isn't. That may sound OTT but in my view this law is there so that the game benefits from it and has 0 dissent and maybe one day, the referee can control the game and keep it flowing without any breaks for this nonsense (yes I've taken too much prozac again! Merely a dream)

 

[Beezer]

Again gents , no individual situation is cut and dried , if I book the..... mouthy tool.... in the team .....and he then continues...... I will have no hesitation in binning him for one more word at me ....but some players are just background whingers ....I will always try my best to keep the game 11 v 11 that's where man management comes into play ...but Brian what you describe are mandatory yellows all day long .....

 

[SM]

They are the obvious ones I agree. You just don't tend to see them anywhere near as often as the bordlerline niggly ones. All I am saying.

 

[Beezer]

Monkey ....so long as I feel I have the game under control im pretty happy!!!!!!!!!!!! ...when im happy ...my levels of tolerance rise ..when my levels rise ..players take advantage of this ......then my tolerance drops .....then cards come out ......then the players realise im not happy and calm down .....then the cards go back in the pocket , then im happy again.... then my levels of tolerance start rising again ...then ...................................!

Man management and staying in control of the game !

No matter what happens in a game the points above are KEY ...................

 

[Grug]

Shouldn't publicly warn a player that is already on a yellow card, so stepped approach is out once they've already been cautioned.

 

[Padfoot]

Monkey ....so long as I feel I have the game under control im pretty happy!!!!!!!!!!!! ...when im happy ...my levels of tolerance rise ..when my levels rise ..players take advantage of this ......then my tolerance drops .....then cards come out ......then the players realise im not happy and calm down .....then the cards go back in the pocket , then im happy again.... then my levels of tolerance start rising again ...then ...................................!

Man management and staying in control of the game !

No matter what happens in a game the points above are KEY ...................

So, what you are saying is that you have an inconsistent approach to dealing with dissent?

Over the years I have heard the phrase 'man management' used on an increasing number of occasions. However, it is almost always used to excuse weak refereeing when the referee knows they should've carded but for whatever reason (club marks probably) chooses not to.

 

[Beezer]

in a way yes , not stick on dissent as described above ......that's easy............. but minor niggly dissent yes I suppose I do

 

[Ryan Owens]

So you've used a stepped approach for what you consider to be dissent, you've spoken to the player, you've then spoken to him with his captain and then you've finally cautioned him

First question is what do you do then, if he does it again?

Do you start the same stepped approach as you did for the first card, do you shorten it to one warning then a second yellow / red or do you go straight to second yellow / red?

Second question, what would the expectation of an assessor be with regards to when to give the second yellow?

No you don't start from the beginning. A second caution is the next step on the stepped approach. If he hasn't learned by the first, then get rid of him because he's a bad egg.