Promotion 17/18

santa sangria

Well-Known Member
Well, Ms Sangria gets bored with this stuff, so I have to share with you... the results are in and I got a leg up in men's, women's, girls', boys' with whistle - and boys' with the flag. Season starts in April but some friendlies starting now. I have one outdoors in +3 tomorrow, one next week scheduled for -4 - please noooo!

I can't go higher with women's and girls' with the flag and I need more games and a blinding season next year to cross the next bridge in men's with the flag - as it goes from regional to national - and I am @20 years older than the one guy they promoted this year!

I am now hitting the same levels as some of my mentors/assessors from the last couple of years who have a lot more experience. No pressure then!
 

Nalbi

Well-Known Member
Well, Ms Sangria gets bored with this stuff, so I have to share with you... the results are in and I got a leg up in men's, women's, girls', boys' with whistle - and boys' with the flag. Season starts in April but some friendlies starting now. I have one outdoors in +3 tomorrow, one next week scheduled for -4 - please noooo!

I can't go higher with women's and girls' with the flag and I need more games and a blinding season next year to cross the next bridge in men's with the flag - as it goes from regional to national - and I am @20 years older than the one guy they promoted this year!

I am now hitting the same levels as some of my mentors/assessors from the last couple of years who have a lot more experience. No pressure then!
Well done mate, onwards and upwards
 

RustyRef

Moderator
Staff member
Whilst there is no interview any more, and rightly so in my opinion, CFA's are asked to provide more than number of observations and average marks for 5-4 candidates. They are asked for comments around availability, administration, any breaches during the year (e.g. not submitting WGS reports on time, not attending hearings, etc). The CFA then have to rank the candidates based on the order they think they should be promoted.

Don't want to dampen expectations and am sure people will be fine, but averaging 73 only guarantees nomination, not acceptance. A lot depends on how many new level 4s are needed in each county, if a CFA nominate 10 who have met the criteria but they only need 5 they will take the top 5. Otherwise you'd have L4s not getting any games and not being retained at the end of the season through no fault of their own as they couldn't be given 10 games.
 

Sheffields Finest

Maybe I'm foolish, Maybe I'm blind!
Whilst there is no interview any more, and rightly so in my opinion, CFA's are asked to provide more than number of observations and average marks for 5-4 candidates. They are asked for comments around availability, administration, any breaches during the year (e.g. not submitting WGS reports on time, not attending hearings, etc). The CFA then have to rank the candidates based on the order they think they should be promoted.

Don't want to dampen expectations and am sure people will be fine, but averaging 73 only guarantees nomination, not acceptance. A lot depends on how many new level 4s are needed in each county, if a CFA nominate 10 who have met the criteria but they only need 5 they will take the top 5. Otherwise you'd have L4s not getting any games and not being retained at the end of the season through no fault of their own as they couldn't be given 10 games.
So, nothing to do with being a decent referee then? Thought so!! :(
 

Sheffields Finest

Maybe I'm foolish, Maybe I'm blind!
Well yes, as the expected mark for 5-4 is 70, so if you have averaged 73 over five games you are well above the average.
But........... "They are asked for comments around availability, administration, any breaches during the year (e.g. not submitting WGS reports on time, not attending hearings, etc). The CFA then have to rank the candidates based on the order they think they should be promoted"........

Say you're the best ref of a bunch, but you've a full time job and aren't the best at paperwork, you are stuck with a committee grey blazer decision!!
 

RustyRef

Moderator
Staff member
But........... "They are asked for comments around availability, administration, any breaches during the year (e.g. not submitting WGS reports on time, not attending hearings, etc). The CFA then have to rank the candidates based on the order they think they should be promoted"........

Say you're the best ref of a bunch, but you've a full time job and aren't the best at paperwork, you are stuck with a committee grey blazer decision!!
No. As a level 4 or above all misconduct must be submitted on the day of the game or at least the day after, that is vital as suspensions can kick in from the next game rather than after 7 days. So, if a L5 referee has waited four days to submit a report that might not count against his 5-4 decision. Whereas if, and I have seen this, he still hasn't submitted it three weeks after the game and after several chasers from his CFA, should he really still be promoted? The answer is an absolute no, no matter how good he is, as he would cause absolute chaos at the higher levels with that type of admin.
 

RustyRef

Moderator
Staff member
Just to add, when I was L3 and L4 I had a full time job and often worked very long hours and also travelled a lot. I had to assume that there may be misconduct during the game, so if I was going away the following day and wouldn't be contactable I would close that date as well as the time I would be away. It isn't rocket science, the reports must be done during the next day, so if you have no chance of doing the reports you don't take the game. At certain times of the season contrib teams can play three games in a week, so if the report doesn't go in on the day of the game, or at least the morning after, it causes chaos.
 

JamesL

Well-Known Member
But........... "They are asked for comments around availability, administration, any breaches during the year (e.g. not submitting WGS reports on time, not attending hearings, etc). The CFA then have to rank the candidates based on the order they think they should be promoted"........

Say you're the best ref of a bunch, but you've a full time job and aren't the best at paperwork, you are stuck with a committee grey blazer decision!!
Like or not, part of refereeing is administration. And is what can set you apart from other referees.
The standard of refereeing at l4, l3 is so close, some of that is partly due to marking criteria, that the ordering is down to decimal places and 1 decimal place can see you in the top band or band b. There aren't going to be many refs standing out from their colleagues based on marks alone so other factors such as admin act as additional weighting, and as rusty has aptly described, rightly so.
 

GraemeS

Well-Known Member
But........... "They are asked for comments around availability, administration, any breaches during the year (e.g. not submitting WGS reports on time, not attending hearings, etc). The CFA then have to rank the candidates based on the order they think they should be promoted"........

Say you're the best ref of a bunch, but you've a full time job and aren't the best at paperwork, you are stuck with a committee grey blazer decision!!
If you're genuinely the best of the bunch, you'll be getting 75's or higher and stand out based on that alone - comments about poor-ish admin will end up reducing you from the #1 spot to the #3 perhaps, but you're probably still getting promoted.

But as others have said above, poor admin will be enough to ensure you don't get given games at that level, which given the constant assessment requirements means you won't stay at that level for long. It makes sense for CFA's to want to look good by recommending people who will get L3 and stay at that level, so admin is fair to consider.
 

zarathustra

Well-Known Member
But........... "They are asked for comments around availability, administration, any breaches during the year (e.g. not submitting WGS reports on time, not attending hearings, etc). The CFA then have to rank the candidates based on the order they think they should be promoted"........

Say you're the best ref of a bunch, but you've a full time job and aren't the best at paperwork, you are stuck with a committee grey blazer decision!!
And rightly so in my opinion.

Submitting misconduct reports is part of a referees job, and if someone struggles with this when they have 2 or three working days to submit the reports then it’s reasonable to assume that they will struggle when timeframes are reduced.
 
On Nalbi’s point, his CFA do conduct a semi-formal interview process where qualifying L4 candidates are questioned by a panel on their season, their observations and other areas mentioned previously (admin, discipline, etc). It acts as a review of the season and an opportunity to discuss any issues that may see a ref otherwise placed lower down that order of preference for promotion. There are also a couple of ‘testing’ scenarios (non LOTG) thrown at you - “Pop quiz, hotshot!”.
 

Nalbi

Well-Known Member
On Nalbi’s point, his CFA do conduct a semi-formal interview process where qualifying L4 candidates are questioned by a panel on their season, their observations and other areas mentioned previously (admin, discipline, etc). It acts as a review of the season and an opportunity to discuss any issues that may see a ref otherwise placed lower down that order of preference for promotion. There are also a couple of ‘testing’ scenarios (non LOTG) thrown at you - “Pop quiz, hotshot!”.
Aaaah now it makes sense, since my coach didn't say anything about scrapped interviews! thanks for the heads up @Middleman
 

Sheffields Finest

Maybe I'm foolish, Maybe I'm blind!
I accept that paperwork is part of a referees (part time) job, however most refs at these levels probably have a demanding job too with a helpful boss and don't do this for a decent recompense.
I'd forgive one of my reps a bit of late paperwork if his numbers at the coalface are on or above target. No point being the most efficient paperwork wise if you aren't a good referee in the first place!!
 

JamesL

Well-Known Member
I accept that paperwork is part of a referees (part time) job, however most refs at these levels probably have a demanding job too with a helpful boss and don't do this for a decent recompense.
I'd forgive one of my reps a bit of late paperwork if his numbers at the coalface are on or above target. No point being the most efficient paperwork wise if you aren't a good referee in the first place!!
Thats part of the point. You aren't a good referee if you dont do the paperwork properly. Doesnt matter how great you are on the green stuff if you cant do the academic side of the job.
Great if you can spot a red card offence. But if not reported, properly or timely, then thats not a good referee.