Polar M400 - Is it poor for refereeing?

[SM]

I have recently purchased one of these GPS watches with HRM. This is my second GPS watch, having used the Garmin forerunner 220 (FR220) for the whole of last season. Was happy with it, but hey I like gadgets and had some refereeing money burning a hole in my pocket.... Thought I would give the m400 a try as I like the stats Polar give access to.

First run out for the M400 was fine. A steady 2.2 km run at pace over a well run route I use when I just want to stretch the old pins. No issue with the M400, the results being very similar to my forerunner stats.

So far so good. Very impressed by the stat break down and the training information.

Used the M400 tonight instead of the old faithful FR220. The results are a little bit odd. The warm up was about what I would expect, seemed fairly accurate for what I did (I do the same sort of routine each game). The warm up involved a run around the pitch and lot of straight line running between goal line and edge of area/half way line.

The problems seem to start at the point of the match starting. The GPS recording is way off what my FR220 records. Really way off.

The distance in KM reported on the M400 are about 0.5 km or more under what I would expect with the FR220 for a similar sort of game (given the level of game and the size of pitch) - and on checking max pace it is way under what I would expect to see (nothing over 13 km/ph). It wasn't what I would call a testing game, but there were a good handful of full pace sprints in the game and I can move faster than 13 km/ph?!?!?!?! That is walking football pace ffs! Just to confirm I don't have the pace of an arthritic snail, I did a referee fitness test last year including sprints with my FR220 on my wrist and the pace it recorded was in line with the break down of the time recorded (6 x 40 m sprints all well within the 6 seconds electronically timed). Very disappointing from the m400.

My faith in the M400 for use in games is pretty much in tatters. I have read across various forums of reports of massive GPS inaccuracies in the M400 (although didn't see them pre-purchase as reviews of the watch don't blooming mention issues!) especially when running anything but straight lines, but this is kind of shocking over a relatively short distance. I will wear them both on Friday and see what happens.

Anyone else use the M400 for games? How do you find it?

 

[Brian Hamilton]

I don't have the M400 but I do know that the results provided by the RS400 varied significantly whether you were using the footpod or GPS via bluetooth to track distance. If the refresh rate on your M400 is only every 5 seconds (fine for running cross country) then it may not track your run to the flag and back out again accurately

 

[SM]

Very interesting point Brian about refresh rate. As the fr220 was pretty accurate looking through a seasons worth of training and matches I just assumed all modern GPS watches would be the same. And We all know what Samuel L Jackson said about assumptions!

I will wear them both tonight and see what the difference is. Will post up the results for those potentially looking at purchasing such a device for training and games.

 

[Josh]

Just got a V800 while on offer at amazon. Based on your description glad I went for the V800 not the M400. Will see what it is like.

 

[SM]

The verdict on the M400 is pretty damning. Today was a lower division match on a medium sized softish pitch. A little bit of a calf/niggling injury meant I was a little more laboured in my running than usual, but it was a decent work out played by 2 teams playing some nice football at times considering their level.

Started with a warm up - some jogging (about half the perimetre of the pitch) followed by some runs back and forth between the goal line and edge of box.

Polar - 0.55 km - max speed 12.4 km/h
Garmin - 0.78 km - max speed 21.7 km/h

The game distances -

Polar - 1st half 3.40 km - 13.3 km/h 2nd half 3.10 km - 15.7 km/h
Garmin - 1st half 4.56 km - 24.1 km/h 2nd half 4.18 km - 21.5 km/h

Some pretty significant differences.

Its not all doom and gloom for the M400 - as a step counter with some interaction with phone (notifications sent to watch) it is good. It looks nice on the wirst and it performed well in a straight run with the heart rate information being solid. I am also a fan of the app and the data presented. However, for refereeing it is rubbish.

 

[Brian Hamilton]

The verdict on the M400 is pretty damning. Today was a lower division match on a medium sized softish pitch. A little bit of a calf/niggling injury meant I was a little more laboured in my running than usual, but it was a decent work out played by 2 teams playing some nice football at times considering their level.

Started with a warm up - some jogging (about half the perimetre of the pitch) followed by some runs back and forth between the goal line and edge of box.

Polar - 0.55 km - max speed 12.4 km/h
Garmin - 0.78 km - max speed 21.7 km/h

The game distances -

Polar - 1st half 3.40 km - 13.3 km/h 2nd half 3.10 km - 15.7 km/h
Garmin - 1st half 4.56 km - 24.1 km/h 2nd half 4.18 km - 21.5 km/h

Some pretty significant differences.

Its not all doom and gloom for the M400 - as a step counter with some interaction with phone (notifications sent to watch) it is good. It looks nice on the wirst and it performed well in a straight run with the heart rate information being solid. I am also a fan of the app and the data presented. However, for refereeing it is rubbish.

Those distances seem pretty small, even with the Garmin. I regularly used to top 10-11K in a Sunday League game (4 years ago - now lucky to top 7K lol)

As for the M400, the RS400 provides GPS and heart rate information when used with an iPhone. It provides some nice data too

You do need a bluetooth enabled chest strap though.

 

[ASM]

@SM have you checked the setup of the sport profile you used? You need to make sure the GPS is set to normal and not power save mode

 

[SM]

@ASM Interesting. Doesn't appear to have a power save mode option anywhere? Checked on the watch and the flow web app -am I missing it? Will root through the support section of the web site shortly see if I can find something. EDIT: I think the feature you mention is only in the v800

@Brian Hamilton - Easy there mate!!!! My pride getting a bit dented right now!!!! lol The watch came with a bluetooth heart rate monitor which is great to use.

Before committing to a GPS watch I checked out the idea of using my phone to record GPS, but it is considered (by internet and forum searches) that phones wildly over estimate running distance. This was confirmed when doing a preseason game earlier in the season between 2 welsh prem sides both myself and the other AR used our devices (me watch him iphone). The game was fairly even both halves so we compared his first half against my second and vice versa - in both halves his KM covered was higher by a KM or more. When your AR there could be variances due to the nature of the game and work rate of the AR in question, but as I knew we would be comparing I was taking every opportunity to add as much distance to my stats as possible - not as easy as it sounds as you are tied to the second last defender for the most of the game!

That said, I do suspect from looking at activity maps after matches that the Garmin doesn't fully record everything, as there will be times where I will remember a certain run into the penalty box at a certain point in the game (say at a goal where I have recorded the time), which is not reflected in the activity map at the same time. I guess without professional tracking equipment, the real distances will always be slightly different to what carried or worn devices can provide.

 

[ASM]

Fair enough @SM, I was going off the PGMO guide for both models which I thinks they've focused on the V800 so that would make sense.

 

[iancarr2016]

I use polar rs800 with gps and also a m400, since firmware updates the GPS and heart rate accuracy is very good, if the correct sport profile are used and gps is not used in power saving mode then its very accurate now

 

[SM]

Thread from the dead mate.

Just as an update, I still have the m400 and it is the worst GPs watch I have ever owned. It's embarrassingly bad with changes of pace, so useless for refereeing or pace training. Good as an everyday watch and for standard pace runs.