A&H

Playing 'advantage' to violent conduct?

Robbo_6

Robbo_6

RefChat Addict
Had an U23 development game last night. Greens v reds. Greens were on a breakaway attack down the right hand side, red defender comes in and fouls the attacker but the ball bounces to another attacker so I signal advantage. Whilst the attacker is starting to cut into the box I hear a commotion behind me. Allegedly after the foul the attacker and defender had a bit of a scuffle and the defender headbutted the other player. All of this was behind and to my right so I didn't see it as I was following the play. Usually I try and keep on eye on afters but as there was a promising breakaway attack I had followed play and didn't want to miss a potential penalty.

This is all a bit of a moot point as I didn't see it anyway, and as I didn't have NARs I couldn't consult anyone. But it got me thinking, if I had witnessed the headbutt, what would be the correct course of action? Do you blow up immediately and issue a RC, stopping the promising breakaway? Or do you 'play advantage' and carry on then issue the card once play has stopped?
 
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Robbo_6 said:
You think I would have looked in the good book first... 🤦‍♂️
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Note the wording as well, "a clear opportunity to score a goal" which, imo is much more than a promising attack. For me we are talking 1v1 situation or an open goal. Anything less we need to stop play and issue the red card.

Seen this once in a Liverpool u18s v man city u18s game, I was on the line, which resulted in the only goal of the game. It was a very good piece of refereeing.
 
JamesL said:
Note the wording as well, "a clear opportunity to score a goal" which, imo is much more than a promising attack. For me we are talking 1v1 situation or an open goal. Anything less we need to stop play and issue the red card.

Seen this once in a Liverpool u18s v man city u18s game, I was on the line, which resulted in the only goal of the game. It was a very good piece of refereeing.
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In this instance the attacker who took the ball after the foul had two players to square it to in the box who would have had an easy tap in. Alas his cross went straight to the only defender in the box who promptly cleared it for a corner.

But if I ever have this again I will definitely be blowing up straight away and issuing a RC.
 
My pregame instructions follow the Laws' guidance almost to a T. I put it in simple language - "Unless the team that gets kicked or punched is about ready to score a goal, please get my attention so we can send the player off."

Especially in the event of a VC or a SFP send off, keeping match control and getting the miscreant off the field is a LOT more important than waiting to see if a promising attack materializes. I might - and I stress might - be a bit more lenient with a second caution, but it would have to be a clear advantage AND I'd have to know that the player receiving the second caution is very unlikely to be involved in the rest of the play. All told, I'd err very much on the side of stopping the match and getting the player off the field.
 
Robbo_6 said:
In this instance the attacker who took the ball after the foul had two players to square it to in the box who would have had an easy tap in. Alas his cross went straight to the only defender in the box who promptly cleared it for a corner.

But if I ever have this again I will definitely be blowing up straight away and issuing a RC.
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So what did you do about the alleged offence?
 
bloovee said:
So what did you do about the alleged offence?
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Read the OP again and you'll see that he took no action.

The post you quote I think he is saying if has it again (and he sees it) the action he would take. The original post was if I had seen I what should I have done 👍
 
Another thing to bear in mind in a situation like this is that if a player has committed an act of violent conduct against an opponent, there is a very good chance that the opponent (or one of their teammates) will consequently do something in retaliation. Even if there is a clear opportunity to score a goal and you play advantage, if an offence has been committed by a player of the team scoring the goal then you would have to disallow the goal.
 
This sounds like one of those situations where you're just a bit unlucky.

What is described in this scenario is that an advantage was played after a foul tackle (not advantage following VC), and then the VC incident happened afterwards whilst play continued and unless the initial foul was worthy of a sending off, which it doesn't sound like it was, then playing advantage is absolutely to be considered, if a promising attack was occurring as described. Of course, usual disclaimers around temperature of game, whether you could have seen this coming, etc. all apply - which only the referee at the time will be able judge whether advantage was appropriate in those circumstances or whether it would have been better to award free kick and kill the game (and YC if necessary i.e. foul tackle was reckless or stopped a promising attack)

The advice provided around playing advantage to violent conduct (if witnessed) is absolutely correct - stop and issue red card unless clear opportunity to score a goal.

However, in this instance, if the R judged advantage worthy of playing, after a careless/reckless tackle, and the violent conduct occurred off the ball, then there isn't too much you can do unfortunately whilst out there on your own without the assistance of NAR's - if you didn't see it, you can't give it.

With hindsight of course, you can look back, knowing that you may have missed something off the ball. But in many instances, the advantage could have been played here and praise issued for good refereeing that led to a positive impact on the game by the scoring of a goal instead of awarding of a free kick, had the player not reacted after the challenge.

Some points to perhaps consider if in the situation again - keep a trailing eye for afters / maintain a position where you have some vision of both the foul and the developing attack (i.e. don't turn your back if possible), and when signalling advantage - give a big shout to go with it, and even possibly call out the number of the player who made the foul (e.g. "Advantage! Number 6 I'll see you in a minute") - which lets the fouled player know that you've seen it, acknowledged it's a foul and will be going back to deal with the offender by way of either a telling off or caution, which may deter a reaction.

And to answer the question asked, if you had seen it, then stop and send off. But don't let the incident put you off from playing advantages from foul tackles.
 
JamesL said:
Read the OP again and you'll see that he took no action.

The post you quote I think he is saying if has it again (and he sees it) the action he would take. The original post was if I had seen I what should I have done 👍
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I read that he doesn't say whether he took any action - so did he just ignore what he thinks might have happened?

What wasn't clear was when "Allegedly after the foul the attacker and defender had a bit of a scuffle and the defender headbutted the other player" came to his attention.
 
Maybe worth mentioning - what happens if a RC advantage player interferes with play? IDFK

Happened to me once. Old laws so no SPA advantage cancels yellow. Classic speedy winger round the outside, blatant hack doesn’t bring him down, clear SPA yellow, it’s second yellow, advantage as the attacker is obliquely entering the box with only GK to beat. Of course, he then dithers, fails to shoot, the defender comes and tackles - so I stopped play for the second yellow and IDFK in the box restart. Took a bit of selling to the players!!
 
santa sangria said:
Maybe worth mentioning - what happens if a RC advantage player interferes with play? IDFK

Happened to me once. Old laws so no SPA advantage cancels yellow. Classic speedy winger round the outside, blatant hack doesn’t bring him down, clear SPA yellow, it’s second yellow, advantage as the attacker is obliquely entering the box with only GK to beat. Of course, he then dithers, fails to shoot, the defender comes and tackles - so I stopped play for the second yellow and IDFK in the box restart. Took a bit of selling to the players!!
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I'm impressed. Good quiz question there (the "hack" would now have to be worth a YC for reckless).
 
bloovee said:
I read that he doesn't say whether he took any action - so did he just ignore what he thinks might have happened?

What wasn't clear was when "Allegedly after the foul the attacker and defender had a bit of a scuffle and the defender headbutted the other player" came to his attention.
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I did not see the alleged VC, only heard it happened from the players and spectators. Without any NARs I had no one else to consult.

The away team took the offending player off minutes after so its safe to say it probably happened.
 
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