Playing advantage from offside

[DB]

At what point did i say the striker was hurtling towards the keeper?

At no point did you say the striker was hurtling towards the keeper...

This was a point for us all to consider when playing an advantage from any form of infringement where an attacker and a goalkeeper could come into contact.

Grab yourself a brew Mr Ref and take a few breaths.

 

[Cheshire Ref]

At no point did you say the striker was hurtling towards the keeper...

This was a point for us all to consider when playing an advantage from any form of infringement where an attacker and a goalkeeper could come into contact.

Grab yourself a brew Mr Ref and take a few breaths.

Fair enough, i miss interrupted that. So many go into attack mode so its easy to go into defence mode.

I dont need to take any breaths dont worry, im as cool as cucumber as always.

 

[lincs22]

Oh he heard me, i shouted clear as day twice with a thumbs up above my head.

I resolved it the only i saw i could, i blew and gave the offside, even though it was 30/40 seconds late. I didn't want too but this guy was not putting his flag down until he got his own way. I would be interested to know how others wold have handled this.

I now incorporate into my pre-match, if the ball is running through and we crack on yadda yadda, please dont be offended if i ask you to drop the flag and if you feel i am wrong then feel free to tell me at half time of after the game.

This was in the first half and we had major words at half time bearing in mind he had also given me 4 foul throws because the players foot was on the line

Now on a side note, it was a cup semi final and i was a replacement ref as the original had got an injury the day before and he was seriously pi$$ed that he had not been given the middle and that i had been brought in. He even asked if i wanted to swap with him and he would do the middle.

So he was really pi$$ed that you got the match over him, and therefore he is taking it out during the match.

Your only option is to limit his involvement (see 1994 WC Final for a brilliant referee and two useless linesmen). Big "Thank You Bill, I seen it" so all the players hear and he looks like a plank if he retains his flag. If he doesn't drop, ignore and he will realise as the game goes though phases that you are not coming back to him. Same could for free-kicks.

And think about reporting to officials about his attitude.

 

[Cheshire Ref]

So he was really pi$$ed that you got the match over him, and therefore he is taking it out during the match.

Your only option is to limit his involvement (see 1994 WC Final for a brilliant referee and two useless linesmen). Big "Thank You Bill, I seen it" so all the players hear and he looks like a plank if he retains his flag. If he doesn't drop, ignore and he will realise as the game goes though phases that you are not coming back to him. Same could for free-kicks.

And think about reporting to officials about his attitude.

Thanks @lincs22 i will look that one up. The Secretary of the league was made aware of his actions and i believe he spoke to the county about it too. Worrying thing is he is now a level 4!!

 

[bester]

As @es1 requested:

There are two points why you should not apply advantage (technically, you don't play advantage) from an offside.
1. As the offence occurred?
2. How can it be an advantage, when the keeper has the ball in his hands and the potential offence was 20 yards up the FOP?

The best outcome is that the goalkeeper has procession, which is not advantage, it is just "play on".

If the keeper kicked the ball directly into touch, would you call play back and award the free-kick? Technically, you should as they have not benefited from the advantage, so you should award the original offence!!!!

If the keeper has the ball after an offside, please shout "seen it, keeper lets keep going" - not offside. As an observer at Supply League level, I would see this as you not understanding the advantage principle and its creates a development point in your report - all all the implications that brings under the new scheme.

What justification in law, if an offside offence has clearly occurred, is there to simply carry on?

 

[xPositor]

My view is that we are there not just to referee for the players, but for anyone watching the game as well. Ignoring the technicalities as to whether you are actually playing advantage or not, raising both of your arms in to the advantage position with an accompanying shout:
a) tells all of the players that a player was offside and that you are not stopping play;
b) acknowledges a correct decision from the CAR (because NAR's are always correct, they don't need acknowledging...), one of the raised hands usually then turns in to a thumbs up directed to the CAR, at which point they typically lower the flag and carry on;
c) informs the spectators.
Personally, I've only ever done this for when the ball is running through to the keeper, not sure I would consider it (at the levels I ref at) under any other scenario.

 

[Brian Hamilton]

Quick shout of "Thank you line, keep playing keep" works for me, no arm signal or shout of play on has kept assessors, sorry observers happy in the past

THIS.

Going back to @lincs22 comments. No offside offence is there? Its just an indication from an AR that they believe an offence has occurred (but it can't as none of the three criteria - play, interfere or gain adv - have been fulfilled). No offence, no advantage. Also the descriptors for advantage state that you should speak to the offender and the player offended. That implies that you should only play advantage where a penal, not a technical, offence has occurred.

In short, follow @Ross and @lincs22 advice, shout keep going and no arm signal.

 

[Brian Hamilton]

My view is that we are there not just to referee for the players, but for anyone watching the game as well. Ignoring the technicalities as to whether you are actually playing advantage or not, raising both of your arms in to the advantage position with an accompanying shout:
a) tells all of the players that a player was offside and that you are not stopping play;
b) acknowledges a correct decision from the CAR (because NAR's are always correct, they don't need acknowledging...), one of the raised hands usually then turns in to a thumbs up directed to the CAR, at which point they typically lower the flag and carry on;
c) informs the spectators.
Personally, I've only ever done this for when the ball is running through to the keeper, not sure I would consider it (at the levels I ref at) under any other scenario.

See my post. There can have been no offside offence, just a player in an offside position. NARs never wrong? Hmmmm, if only. Of the 26 games I've observed this season where NARs were used, on average I've seen errors on offside in at least 5 occasions.

 

[JamesL]

THIS.

Going back to @lincs22 comments. No offside offence is there? Its just an indication from an AR that they believe an offence has occurred (but it can't as none of the three criteria - play, interfere or gain adv - have been fulfilled). No offence, no advantage. Also the descriptors for advantage state that you should speak to the offender and the player offended. That implies that you should only play advantage where a penal, not a technical, offence has occurred.

In short, follow @Ross and @lincs22 advice, shout keep going and no arm signal.

So, Brian, in my situation was I wrong to play advantage? Should I have stopped play or just thumbs up to linesman and said carry on. An offside offence occurred. Stopping play would have been a detriment to defending side so I think I should have allowed them to continue but how should I demonstrate this to my assistant, the players and spectators.

 

[A Freethinker]

So, Brian, in my situation was I wrong to play advantage? Should I have stopped play or just thumbs up to linesman and said carry on. An offside offence occurred. Stopping play would have been a detriment to defending side so I think I should have allowed them to continue but how should I demonstrate this to my assistant, the players and spectators.

I think what Brian is saying is you are correct and handled it appropriately quick shout to acknowledge there was an offence and inform AR that you seen his flag.

 

[xPositor]

See my post. There can have been no offside offence, just a player in an offside position. NARs never wrong? Hmmmm, if only. Of the 26 games I've observed this season where NARs were used, on average I've seen errors on offside in at least 5 occasions.

See my post. I acknowledge that technically you are not playing advantage - but you are visually and verbally letting players, CAR and spectators know that you have chosen not to stop play because of the player in an offside position, and that you agree with the call being made by the CAR. Of course, raising a single arm towards the CAR to acknowledge them _could_ be interpreted as playing advantage, now that that is an approved signal

 

[DB]

What justification in law, if an offside offence has clearly occurred, is there to simply carry on?

Common sense! Keep the game flowing if you! Unless you're using your angry whistle

 

[Brian Hamilton]

I played one recently, but after the game I was in 2 minds about whether I was right or not. Ball intercepted by defender. Attacker comes back from offside position to challenge. It was a dead easy one, I'd of got it on my own. I was awaiting the flag which I duly got as the attacker attempts a tackle. Defender shields the ball well from the tackle, flag goes up (correctly imo) but defender plays it out to what turned into an attacking situation that broke down in the attacking third. I shouted play on advantage, thumb up to my assistant but should I have done this?The attacker did interfere with his opponent by "attempting to challenge for the ball" - should I play advantage from here. No1 complained but I didnt have an observer.

So, Brian, in my situation was I wrong to play advantage? Should I have stopped play or just thumbs up to linesman and said carry on. An offside offence occurred. Stopping play would have been a detriment to defending side so I think I should have allowed them to continue but how should I demonstrate this to my assistant, the players and spectators.

Don't use the advantage signal or words. No penal offence, no advantage. keep going by all means but no sweep up of the arms.

I think what Brian is saying is you are correct and handled it appropriately quick shout to acknowledge there was an offence and inform AR that you seen his flag.

Don't use the advantage signal or words. No penal offence, no advantage. keep going by all means but no sweep up of the arms.

See my post. I acknowledge that technically you are not playing advantage - but you are visually and verbally letting players, CAR and spectators know that you have chosen not to stop play because of the player in an offside position, and that you agree with the call being made by the CAR. Of course, raising a single arm towards the CAR to acknowledge them _could_ be interpreted as playing advantage, now that that is an approved signal

Don't use the advantage signal or words. No penal offence, no advantage. keep going by all means but no sweep up of the arm(s). And as for that one armed advantage signal, don't get me started...

 

[Brian Hamilton]

Common sense! Keep the game flowing if you! Unless you're using your angry whistle

Yes but no arm signal and no words

 

[Russell Jones]

Brian, from this thread and your similar comments on previous threads I have learnt a valuable lesson about why in the vast majority of these 'offside' situations you cannot play a true advantage because in reality no offside offense has actually occured. Play on by all means, but, as you say above, no arm or voice signal.

However I'm thinking that in the unusual and specific situation that @James Long describes above, there HAS in fact been an offside offense and therefore advantage could legitimately be played? And actually, had the advantage not then materialised he could indeed have then brought it back for the offside offense .....

 

[Brian Hamilton]

Brian, from this thread and your similar comments on previous threads I have learnt a valuable lesson about why in the vast majority of these 'offside' situations you cannot play a true advantage because in reality no offside offense has actually occured. Play on by all means, but, as you say above, no arm or voice signal.

However I'm thinking that in the unusual and specific situation that @James Long describes above, there HAS in fact been an offside offense and therefore advantage could legitimately be played? And actually, had the advantage not then materialised he could indeed have then brought it back for the offside offense .....

It's still not a penal offence and as such, under the terms of the descriptors provided by The FA (local interpretation I know, but when in Rome...) advantage can only be played from a penal offence. Also, there is strong advice in the descriptors that advantage should not be played in the defensive third, which is where the vast majority of offside offences will occur.

Far better to tell the player to keep going, do not signal or announce an advantage, do not acknowledge the assistant so that they maintain their flag and if it doesn't come off within a few seconds go back for the original offside offence. In most circumstances though, including the one described by @James Long, blow the whistle, stop the game and award the IDFK.

 

[A Freethinker]

@Brian Hamilton are you saying 'no arm signal, no words?' or should we?

 

[DB]

If the lino smahes his flag up... I always make a point of telling the players to play on if they can. "Play on gents" with a thumbs up to the assistant in acknowledgement.

 

[JamesL]

Advantage
• allows play to continue when an infringement or offence occurs and the
non-offending team will benefit from the advantage and penalises the
infringement or offence if the anticipated advantage does not ensue at that
time or within a few seconds

This is what the laws says word for word.

This to me suggests that if the offside offence/infringement is committed as in my case advantage is appropriate - there is the red amber green argument still and as Brian says it would be best advised to stop play and give and IDFK.
I think if the offence isnt committed i.e. it runs through to keeper then its not advantage, its just allowing play to continue.
@Brian Hamilton if I am not mistaken you've referred to another document aside from the lotg - am I to assume this is guidance for/to observers given by local FA as lotg doesnt diffrentiate between penal and technical offences in its wording when providing advantage guidance (or not that I could find). If so, is that resource available anywhere?
Happy to be corrected and shown the light

 

[Brian Hamilton]

Advantage
• allows play to continue when an infringement or offence occurs and the
non-offending team will benefit from the advantage and penalises the
infringement or offence if the anticipated advantage does not ensue at that
time or within a few seconds

This is what the laws says word for word.

This to me suggests that if the offside offence/infringement is committed as in my case advantage is appropriate - there is the red amber green argument still and as Brian says it would be best advised to stop play and give and IDFK.
I think if the offence isnt committed i.e. it runs through to keeper then its not advantage, its just allowing play to continue.
@Brian Hamilton if I am not mistaken you've referred to another document aside from the lotg - am I to assume this is guidance for/to observers given by local FA as lotg doesnt diffrentiate between penal and technical offences in its wording when providing advantage guidance (or not that I could find). If so, is that resource available anywhere?
Happy to be corrected and shown the light

Observers handbook which is in the Resources section of this very web site (under name of Assessor handbook). New version already issued and comes into effect on Wednesday