A&H

Players touching the ref

A

alexv

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Level 5 Referee
Noticed recently more and more players have started bumping into refs and pulling their arms, holding their backs, etc... really frustrating to see, as it goes unpunished (like 99% of dissent in the pro game) on TV. Saw it in the Arsenal Liverpool game after MO correctly awarded a penalty and Kolasinac (I think) barged into him (albeit softly, but still a barge) and a few other Arsenal players were holding the his arm arguing.
How are you dealing with this in lower levels?
 
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we have had tons of threads on this? seems like a lot of folk in the "cant touch the ref" camp, which is Narnia-esq

to quote "If a player barges me, they're walking for VC. No issues". which is fine as long as the same barge by a player on a player is also a red. The offence is violent conduct whether its on you, or the opponent is immaterial.....
 
Ciley Myrus said:
we have had tons of threads on this? seems like a lot of folk in the "cant touch the ref" camp, which is Narnia-esq

to quote "If a player barges me, they're walking for VC. No issues". which is fine as long as the same barge by a player on a player is also a red. The offence is violent conduct whether its on you, or the opponent is immaterial.....
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I wouldn’t be sending off for the one I’m referencing but there’s a i see it different touching an opponent player and a match official. I probably wouldn’t be sending off but I don’t agree with it mostly
 
alexv said:
I wouldn’t be sending off for the one I’m referencing but there’s a i see it different touching an opponent player and a match official. I probably wouldn’t be sending off but I don’t agree with it mostly
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not seen the Liverpool one, watching Hearts v Hibs
where is this difference between touching an opponent and touching a match official? It might be utopia to think we are in the bubble and I don't think anyone can deny nobody should be touching a match official but an act of violence for example, is judged on the brutality, not on who the brutality was against.
 
Ciley Myrus said:
not seen the Liverpool one, watching Hearts v Hibs
where is this difference between touching an opponent and touching a match official? It might be utopia to think we are in the bubble and I don't think anyone can deny nobody should be touching a match official but an act of violence for example, is judged on the brutality, not on who the brutality was against.
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In my eyes (I’m a lot less experienced than you though) it’s the same as the way players speak to each other and how they speak to the officials. It’s different and if a player swears at opposition you’d react differently to if they swore at you. But that’s just how I see it anyway and of course there isn’t a law specifically about touching
 
alexv said:
In my eyes (I’m a lot less experienced than you though) it’s the same as the way players speak to each other and how they speak to the officials. It’s different and if a player swears at opposition you’d react differently to if they swore at you. But that’s just how I see it anyway and of course there isn’t a law specifically about touching
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Ano, am just planting seeds ! Nobody wants match officials to be man handled, I think that's the over riding point.
 
alexv said:
In my eyes (I’m a lot less experienced than you though) it’s the same as the way players speak to each other and how they speak to the officials. It’s different and if a player swears at opposition you’d react differently to if they swore at you. But that’s just how I see it anyway and of course there isn’t a law specifically about touching
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It's more...

If a player barges another, there is usually a good reason: Contesting the ball for example. Or there is a bit of handbags coming out when there is an awful challenge and tempers have got the best of them. You have leeway with player vs player interactions.

What excuse then, is there for barging the referee? No matter how soft it is? He's not challenging me for the ball, he has no right to lose his temper with me in that particular manner and finally, it's an authority relationship here (referee-player/police-civilian) and not something being done on equal terms (player-player/civvie-civvie for example). So, it is pretty easy for me to justify a red card here. I've done it before when a player squared up to me and 'bumped' chests with me, it's just not on.
 
RobOda said:
It's more...

If a player barges another, there is usually a good reason: Contesting the ball for example. Or there is a bit of handbags coming out when there is an awful challenge and tempers have got the best of them. You have leeway with player vs player interactions.

What excuse then, is there for barging the referee? No matter how soft it is? He's not challenging me for the ball, he has no right to lose his temper with me in that particular manner and finally, it's an authority relationship here (referee-player/police-civilian) and not something being done on equal terms (player-player/civvie-civvie for example). So, it is pretty easy for me to justify a red card here. I've done it before when a player squared up to me and 'bumped' chests with me, it's just not on.
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Oh yeah, of course for that. The incident I'm referring to was more of a nudge for attention than to confront him. I was more concerned about the lack of respect, rather than it being violent
 
alexv said:
I think VC would’ve been harsh for the one I’m on about but it’s certainly a lack of disrespect and therefore, dissent for me
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Funny. I always encouraged lack of disrespect :)

If a player touches me in protest and it doesn't warrant a VC then it's a jesture of dissent. In either case my immidiate reaction is a very stern "DO NOT TOUCH ME".
 
Ciley Myrus said:
we have had tons of threads on this? seems like a lot of folk in the "cant touch the ref" camp, which is Narnia-esq

to quote "If a player barges me, they're walking for VC. No issues". which is fine as long as the same barge by a player on a player is also a red. The offence is violent conduct whether its on you, or the opponent is immaterial.....
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I'm not quite in that camp but there definitely should be a lower tolerance for physical contact the the referee. If a player pushes me with 2 hands he's going, if he did it to another player, probably a caution.
 
alexgr said:
If a player barges me, they're walking for VC. No issues
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If you saw this barge on Oliver, it was more a caution. If a player is in my face and comes in to barge me and rough me up, he's going. Oliver and Buffon comes to mind.
 
Ciley Myrus said:
we have had tons of threads on this? seems like a lot of folk in the "cant touch the ref" camp, which is Narnia-esq

to quote "If a player barges me, they're walking for VC. No issues". which is fine as long as the same barge by a player on a player is also a red. The offence is violent conduct whether its on you, or the opponent is immaterial.....
Click to expand...
So if a player recklesly tackles you (as a referee), you would only caution him right?
 
Ciley Myrus said:
we have had tons of threads on this? seems like a lot of folk in the "cant touch the ref" camp, which is Narnia-esq

to quote "If a player barges me, they're walking for VC. No issues". which is fine as long as the same barge by a player on a player is also a red. The offence is violent conduct whether its on you, or the opponent is immaterial.....
Click to expand...
I disagree with that comparison. The two players involved are part of a contact sport. We as referees are not involved in that.
 
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QuaverRef said:
I disagree with that comparison. The two players involved are part of a contact sport. We as referees are not involved in that.
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I dont think the act of violence is stipulated to judged on who the act of violence was against.
Its either an act of violence, or, its not.
Page 108 lists us in the same sentence as other players, spectators etc
it says nowhere to class the violence different depending on who it is carried out on....
VC occurs when not challenging for the ball, so it being a contact sport or not gets thrown out of the window here
 
Ciley Myrus said:
Nothing like the senario I have in my head.
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The example was made to make sure you can see why when it comes to physical contact, "whether its on you, or the opponent is" very much important and has a big impact on how you assess the severity of it.
 
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