A&H

Player removes shirt before scoring...

RustyRef said:
But on the flip side you can't then be penalised for celebrating a goal before it has happened. Celebrating a goal by removing your shirt is an offence, it cannot be an offence if the goal hasn't happened yet. Chicken and egg.

This came up before a few year as ago as a pro player actually did it in a game. I'm pretty sure the consensus was allow the goal and caution for the celebration. You technically could caution for USB and disallow the goal, but the caution certainly couldn't be for a goal celebration as you'd be penalising something that hadn't yet happened. All you could really do is use the catch all "shows a lack of respect for the game".
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Agree totally chicken and egg... But what is the player celebrating then? People dont spontaneously celebrate nothing...
 
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RefereeX said:
The board is quiet, so thought I'd open a law debate. (Or it might not be a debate, it may be unanimous)

An attacker on a counter attack rounds the keeper who has come a long way out of goal. He kicks the ball towards goal and begins to wheel off celebrating, removing his shirt before the ball crosses the line.

What's your decision? And would it be any different if he removed his shirt prior to taking the shot compared to after taking the shot but before the ball crossed the line?
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Did you see this on the same Tiktok I did recently?

For me, I think you're really stuck between a rock and a hard place. And if it all kicks off on a Sunday morning, it's not a place I would want to be.

I think I would allow the goal, provided the player doesn't do anything towards the opposition (alluded to in another post). If the player does anything silly with the shirt towards the opposition, then I'm giving the offence and disallowing the goal.

There'd be a caution in it either way for me though!
 
I think this is very simple. As one or two others have said:

if the shirt removal is just slightly early reacting to the incipient goal. Allow the goal, but he of course gets a yellow card,

If it is done in any kind of "taunt the opposition" manner. Then YC and disallow goal. And I won't need to faff around with "spirit of the game" stuff; my reason to caution is a simple bullet point in the goal celebration section that no one has mentioned:

• acting in a provocative, derisory or inflammatory way

This covers it pretty well.
 
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We are to not stop play but tell the player who has removed his shirt and is bearing down on goal that he must leave the FOP to correct the equipment and can then re-enter once you have checked.

Meanwhile the goalkeeper scoops up the ball and we continue the game.

And of course because we are referees, the players will listen and obey without recourse and the observer will praise us for our brilliant understanding of law and management of players 😅
 
JamesL said:
Devils advocate. I've already said my mindset is the same, allow goal and YC.

I know this provision was put in because of VAR generally, but even if the goal is disallowed, which means there was no goal to celebrate, the player is still cautioned. So, the offence still occurs, despite there having been no goal scored.
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Continuing devils advocate as our views are aligned. Also I have already mentioned one can quote different parts of law to justify different or contradicting outcomes, (hence go with what football expects).

In your devils advocate argument, a counter argument is that even in that scenario, the offence timing is after the ball crosses the line, goal is scored, then disallowed.
 
Big Cat said:
James, IFAB no less than you (and a few others here), so why email them? They'll just fabricate a response that has no bearing and/or sets no precedence
And every observer would likely have their own view of such unlikely events, possibly (hopefully not, assuming they're sensible!) ruining your season based on their own whim
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Love a bit of cynicism.

On a different note, clearly off season in your neck of the woods. We are finding problems that don't exist just so the we can debate it 😂
 
What about the same player is swinging his shirt around in a way that stops the keeper from making an attempt to save the ball?

🤣🤣🤣🤣
 
wazztie16 said:
Did you see this on the same Tiktok I did recently?

For me, I think you're really stuck between a rock and a hard place. And if it all kicks off on a Sunday morning, it's not a place I would want to be.

I think I would allow the goal, provided the player doesn't do anything towards the opposition (alluded to in another post). If the player does anything silly with the shirt towards the opposition, then I'm giving the offence and disallowing the goal.

There'd be a caution in it either way for me though!
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I did, and funnily enough as much as we're all here in agreement that football expects the goal to be given, most of the comments said it should be disallowed 😆
 
RefereeX said:
I reckon they were worried about you James and were so excited to see you back that they decided to give the most decisive answer ever in the hope you don't lose faith in them. They've never given such a clear answer without sitting on the fence before. 😆
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That was 100% the reason why 😆. They always find creative ways to avoid the question. One time I asked them about something that happened in a match I was refereeing and they said something along the lines of "we can't comment on individual match incidents". Of course they can't - they weren't there! 🤣
 
Gabriel said:
That was 100% the reason why 😆. They always find creative ways to avoid the question. One time I asked them about something that happened in a match I was refereeing and they said something along the lines of "we can't comment on individual match incidents". Of course they can't - they weren't there! 🤣
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Have had that before. Just don't reference a match, just write the scenario.
 
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