A&H

Penalty kick or not?

The Referee Store
Rightly or wrongly, at senior levels it is generally accepted that if you get the shot away before getting taken out you aren't getting a penalty. Very rarely are they given, and it certainly wouldn't tick the box for clear and obvious error.
 
Not having a go at anyone here because I learn so much from this forum but I'm intrigued as to the logic here.

My test for penalties before I give them is would I give that anywhere else on the field. If yes, then pen. (Because I get annoyed that the tiniest touches anywhere else on the field get waved away but all of a sudden in the box the rules 'change'.)

To me that he gets the shot away and then gets taken late. Anywhere else on the field that'd be a foul so for me that's a penalty.

Am I wrong?
 
I dispute that he gets taken late. His forward momentum takes him over the GK who is diving to make a save. The GK does not lunge or jump at him
 
It's not mistimed. Nor is it careless

The striker is the one who has run into the keeper. Players are entitled to their position
 
It's not mistimed. Nor is it careless

The striker is the one who has run into the keeper. Players are entitled to their position

If he tapped that past the keeper (to go around him) and was hit like that then it'd be a pen for sure so I don't understand why, just because he's taken a shot, it's not.
 
If he tapped that past the keeper (to go around him) and was hit like that then it'd be a pen for sure so I don't understand why, just because he's taken a shot, it's not.

As Rusty says, at top level ( based on the clip), the expectatiom is, no foul.

Making the clip relevant to grass roots, there is more scope to go pk
 
If he tapped that past the keeper (to go around him) and was hit like that then it'd be a pen for sure so I don't understand why, just because he's taken a shot, it's not.
Why do you say it is careless?

What has the goalkeeper been careless as to?
 
If he tapped that past the keeper (to go around him) and was hit like that then it'd be a pen for sure so I don't understand why, just because he's taken a shot, it's not.
I totally agree with you. This is not a 'collision'. The GK attempts and fails to play the ball, instead taking out the attacker who cleanly plays the ball. Whilst I understand (if not totally agree with) the unwritten convention that when a shot is blasted and missed in these type of situations the foul is not called (thinking that the ball might have been off the FOP by the time of the contact), this is not one of those times. The ball is still in play and in taking out the attacker the GK has denied him any chance to continue his involvement.
 
If he tapped that past the keeper (to go around him) and was hit like that then it'd be a pen for sure so I don't understand why, just because he's taken a shot, it's not.

I agree with you, but watching that clip back, particularly side-on I'm in agreement with @Redster the striker has gone over the keeper and I wouldn't be calling that as a foul (unless I was in the wrong angle, the front-cam looks a stonewaller obvs).

I also agree with what else has been said, at a certain level, players won't appeal for these and/or won't expect the call to be made ~ I actually gave one of these as a f/k the other day and got nothing but grief for it. I think you genuinely have to completely wipe a player out a lot worse than in that clip before they'd demand it. But this is just my limited experience so far.
 
For the record I think it's a penalty.

But as a new twist into this, if the striker kicks the ball into the keeper (with every other action and movement being the same for both), would you still make the same decision, whatever that is?
 
For the record I think it's a penalty.

But as a new twist into this, if the striker kicks the ball into the keeper (with every other action and movement being the same for both), would you still make the same decision, whatever that is?
No, in that situation, fortunately for the keeper, I think the threshold for the contact between GK and attacker becomes higher and likely he gets away with the challenge... the GK is deemed to have played the ball regardless of how this came about. As we know playing the ball does not negate the possibility of a foul, just makes it significantly less likely and in this case I'd change to no foul.

@Redster , I'm more than happy to describe the OP challenge as Careless. Much like the majority of other challenges for the ball where significant contact is made with the other player but no contact is made with the ball.
 
My test for penalties before I give them is would I give that anywhere else on the field. If yes, then pen. (Because I get annoyed that the tiniest touches anywhere else on the field get waved away but all of a sudden in the box the rules 'change'.)
I used to be like this too, but when you referee/assist at higher levels you do have to referee in accordance with the expectations of the players, managers, coaches and other officials. The simple fact is that there is a higher bar for FK near the penalty area, and penalties, because that's more likely to lead to a KMI.

I struggled with this for a while, until I realised that quite often when I gave those kinds of decisions, particularly the slightly uncertain corner (rather than erring on the side of the defence and giving the GK) or the debatable FK outside the box, I was hoping nothing would come of it. Once I realised that, I realised why it does matter.
 
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