Penalty Incident

[Josh the referee]

Had an U15s game this afternoon.

Penalty appeal waved away. I couldn't be more sure that it wasn't a penalty but one team were certain it was a penalty. Anyways long story short, a player gets himself sent off for Offinabus.

Should he probably have gotten away with a sin bin? Maybe. Think that a sinbin may have been better and almost regret not having sinbinned him now.

Anyways, we move on. Had an excellent game this morning and sometimes the games just don't all work out the way we would want them too.

 

[DazN]

What did he say?

 

[socal lurker]

I’d say far more likely that OFFINABUS was the right call . . . In my experience refs make far more mistakes in not sending off p,Ayer’s than in sending off players they shouldn’t have. But it does of course depend on what he said.

 

[Viridis1886]

Without knowing what was said, if your gut feeling at the time it was OFFINABUS, then you were clearly offended, insulted or abused. Go with your gut. Retrospect isn't always helpful with these as we tend to talk the seriousness down.

 

[Josh the referee]

What did he say?

Called me a "fu**ing joke" on top of some other comments. I think realistically a sin-bin may have been of better use but who knows? He sort of chased after me to say it directly at me, that played into my decision making process.

Maybe a bit of an overreaction by me, game had been a frustrating one to referee up to that point so maybe some of that played into my decision.

I'm happy with not awarding the penalty, just a shame there's no veo to back me up. I had a perfect angle on it, and striker was definitely looking for contact to try and get a penalty.

Got annoyed by some comments made after the game about my age and being like "oh he shouldn't be refereeing these sort of games" but at the end of the day, I'm no less qualified then some of the other referees on the panel

 

[GraemeS]

For judging dissent/OFFINABUS, I've started thinking in terms of the 3 P's: Public, Personal, Persistent. If it ticks all 3 boxes, go red, if it ticks 2, go sin bin and if it ticks 1....depends on your vibe and how the game is going, but either a strong warning with the captain, or sin bin regardless!

For me, the words said ticks the "Personal" box (assuming the words quoted followed "you're a...." rather than "that decision's a...") and the fact he chased you to say it and you reference other comments covers "Persistent" too. The only possible grey area is "public" - was it obvious that he was insulting you and/or was the insult shouted loud enough that everyone involved could hear? If so, definitely justified red.

 

[socal lurker]

Called me a "fu**ing joke" on top of some other comments. I think realistically a sin-bin may have been of better use but who knows? He sort of chased after me to say it directly at me, that played into my decision making process.

Heck, yes, that’s OFFINABUS! He deliberately made it personal and offensive, and chased you to do it.

And I disagree with @GraemeS in getting too technical about counting boxes. The three Ps are definitely useful, but they aren’t magic boxes, and each of the three has levels. For me, even if a one time event and whispered so I only hear it, “you’re a f-ing joke” is an easy send off every single time. (I recognize that F bombs are “heavier” in the US than England; here, for me, anything that has “you” and an F bomb is a send off.)

 

[GraemeS]

I'm not sure a bunch of people going "yeah, send him off!" is particularly helpful in terms of either fully justifying the decision, or in terms of helping make the next decision when the words or context are slightly different.

I didn't present the framework to suggest Josh should be sitting there counting boxes before taking action. I presented it a) to show that it does clearly fit inside red card offence both in terms of content and context (i.e. is it sellable) and b) to suggest how to think about anything that feels a bit borderline in future.

 

[socal lurker]

I'm not sure a bunch of people going "yeah, send him off!" is particularly helpful in terms of either fully justifying the decision, or in terms of helping make the next decision when the words or context are slightly different.

I didn't present the framework to suggest Josh should be sitting there counting boxes before taking action. I presented it a) to show that it does clearly fit inside red card offence both in terms of content and context (i.e. is it sellable) and b) to suggest how to think about anything that feels a bit borderline in future.

I think I said a fair bit more than “yeah, send him off.” But we are agreeing more than disagreeing. The three Ps are a valuable way of assessing things. But I thought your post could be read as overly mathematical in assessing inappropriate comments and downgrading what should be sin bins or send offs. (And perhaps I overreacted, as I think too much of the game is trying to put precision where it doesn’t belong.)

 

[DazN]

For what it’s worth that would be OFFINABUS for me too.

 

[Josh the referee]

For judging dissent/OFFINABUS, I've started thinking in terms of the 3 P's: Public, Personal, Persistent. If it ticks all 3 boxes, go red, if it ticks 2, go sin bin and if it ticks 1....depends on your vibe and how the game is going, but either a strong warning with the captain, or sin bin regardless!

For me, the words said ticks the "Personal" box (assuming the words quoted followed "you're a...." rather than "that decision's a...") and the fact he chased you to say it and you reference other comments covers "Persistent" too. The only possible grey area is "public" - was it obvious that he was insulting you and/or was the insult shouted loud enough that everyone involved could hear? If so, definitely justified red.

Definitely think that's a great logic to run on.

It was an insult that people would've definitely heard from the sidelines, and it left me choosing between a yellow and a red, and I went Red.

There weren't too many complaints, got told I "ruined the game" after the game, funnily enough by a keeper who dropped the ball and the opposition then tapped the ball into an empty net in the last couple of minutes - the irony!!

There were a couple of comparisons to a player that went "**** off" within the first 5 mins. Didn't think it was aimed at me but more as frustration and had to explain this multiple times. Had a quick word with the player just to ensure that if he had meant it, he would know what would happen if he said something that I felt was aimed at me.