Palace v Man City FAC

[Runner Ref]

Did they completely miss it though? Perhaps Attwell did but there’s no way the active AR did, rather he’s seen it and incorrectly determined it was inside the penalty area

I'd rather he missed it completely than deemed it was inside the area. You could well be right, of course.

 

[RustyRef]

I'd rather he missed it completely than deemed it was inside the area. You could well be right, of course.

Well it is one of three things. He saw it and thought it was inside. He missed it completely. He saw it and thought it was accidental. I would hope it was the first of those as the other two seriously question competency levels given just how obviously the ball was slapped away.

 

[Runner Ref]

Well it is one of three things. He saw it and thought it was inside. He missed it completely. He saw it and thought it was accidental. I would hope it was the first of those as the other two seriously question competency levels given just how obviously the ball was slapped away.

Given the AR's are trained to get offsides correct with mm precision, id like to think they could tell this was outside, purely based on where Hendersons leg is in relation to his arm.

This is in no way a tight decision. The ball is nearly 3 ball widths outside the area

 

[RustyRef]

Given the AR's are trained to get offsides correct with mm precision, id like to think they could tell this was outside, purely based on where Hendersons leg is in relation to his arm.

This is in no way a tight decision. The ball is nearly 3 ball widths outside the area

They are also trained to be in line with the 2nd last defender but he is miles off here. The still doesn’t show it, but I’d hope he was sprinting hard to get level and that can make it harder to make judgements.

 

[Runner Ref]

They are also trained to be in line with the 2nd last defender but he is miles off here. The still doesn’t show it, but I’d hope he was sprinting hard to get level and that can make it harder to make judgements.

Regardless of the angle, the ball being so far out of the area should be spotted.

 

[CaptainsPlease]

This is a 'serious missed incident' case as the probable DOGSO offence was not spotted on field (free kick not awarded). Gillett seems to have applied the C&O bar when not required. It also suggests a flaw in the protocol because Gillett is refereeing the incident when really for any potential serious missed incident he should just be required to proceed to an on-field review.

 

[JamesL]

This is a 'serious missed incident' case as the probable DOGSO offence was not spotted on field (free kick not awarded). Gillett seems to have applied the C&O bar when not required. It also suggests a flaw in the protocol because Gillett is refereeing the incident when really for any potential serious missed incident he should just be required to proceed to an on-field review.

No he hasn't. He doesn't believe it's DOGSO therefore it's not a serious missed incident.

An SMI (new abbr.) still has to be in relation to one of the 4 reviewable incidents. If the VAR doesn't think it is then it can't be recommended for on-field review

 

[Paul_10]

Don't really agree, it has been accepted far more readily in other countries, generally where it has gone wrong has been where they have gone with a cut price version, the old adage you get what you pay for, or the bosses have messed around with the protocol or implementation (i.e. England). How much controversy can anyone remember from the Euros, World Cup, or UEFA competitions? I'm struggling to think of any, and that really points at the PGMOL implementation, as well as that in other countries where it has had serious issues.

I do think Howard Webb will get it right eventually. Don't think we should forget he took over from a regime that changed the bar for VAR almost every other weekend, that must have been impossible for the officials. I suspect as the legacy officials "age out", and the panel becomes almost full of referees that have had VAR since they started it will improve significantly.

I'll also add that a major problem in England is the massive influence the EFL have on PGMOL. That needs to stop, either PGMOL needs to become completely independent of the EPL, or disbanded and the management of officials moves back to the FA. That isn't just in relation to VAR, but it certainly plays a part.

Thing is, there has been controversy in the FIFA/UEFA competitions, especially with their more strict impersonation of handball.

I actually do think one thing the PGMOL has got right is the handball for the most part, you definitely don't see defenders playing with their arms behind their backs in the PL because they know the threshold is alot higher than in other leagues/competitions.

I do think alot of people's judgement on VAR is clouded and they forget the amount of times it has been useful in terms of correcting referee errors.

I do feel things have improved under Howard Webb and will continue to do so. We will still get some controversy because it's human beings at the end of the day making a judgement that at times is subjective.

With the controversy on the possible DOGSO incident in this game, I do hope the protocol can change that if the officials have missed a keeper(or even defender) handling outside of the box and there is a strong sniff it could be a DOGSO then the referee must be called over to the monitor to judge for himself, I do think there would of been less controversy if Attwell saw it and given a yellow card and I for one would be more happy at the outcome if that what happened.

 

[CaptainsPlease]

No he hasn't. He doesn't believe it's DOGSO therefore it's not a serious missed incident.

An SMI (new abbr.) still has to be in relation to one of the 4 reviewable incidents. If the VAR doesn't think it is then it can't be recommended for on-field review

Without the comms, we aren't sure whether Gillett was reasoning for not DOGSO or for not C&O.

 

[JamesL]

Without the comms, we aren't sure whether Gillett was reasoning for not DOGSO or for not C&O

So, without the Comms, how were you so sure he had applied the protocol wrong?

DOGSO is the only decision that can be reviewed.

It's very clear the handball was missed, this is reasonably objective in this case, so the only thing Gillet needs to work out is was it a DOGSO aka as a serious missed incident.

The reports that came out from those that were privy to the VAR Comms was he determined it was not DOGSO and therefore could not be recommended for review. Nothing was said, that I heard, about clear and obvious.

 

[RustyRef]

Without the comms, we aren't sure whether Gillett was reasoning for not DOGSO or for not C&O.

The commentators heard every word that Gillett said, he said it wasn't DOGSO as the play was going wide. Once he utters those words that's it, check complete, there's nothing left to review.

They are also effectively one and the same thing in this case. The handball is largely irrelevant, VAR just has to determine if it was DOGSO and if so whether the on-pitch officials made a clear and obvious error in not penalising it.

 

[RefereeX]

Also Mr Gillett has to be careful what he says knowing people can hear him, so he can't say 'I think it probably ticks enough boxes to be DOGSO but I won't recommend a review as I don't think it's a clear and obvious error for it to not be considered DOGSO' because he'll sound like a moron

 

[Runner Ref]

The commentators heard every word that Gillett said, he said it wasn't DOGSO as the play was going wide. Once he utters those words that's it, check complete, there's nothing left to review.

They are also effectively one and the same thing in this case. The handball is largely irrelevant, VAR just has to determine if it was DOGSO and if so whether the on-pitch officials made a clear and obvious error in not penalising it.

I agree.

But it's highly embarrassing that one of our elite looked and that and made such a judgement.

I've been thinking about this over the last few days, and the more you think about it, the officials had an absolute nightmare. Potentially the biggest game of their careers and this is what they came up with.

Football deserves better. As do grassroots officials.

 

[Runner Ref]

Also Mr Gillett has to be careful what he says knowing people can hear him, so he can't say 'I think it probably ticks enough boxes to be DOGSO but I won't recommend a review as I don't think it's a clear and obvious error for it to not be considered DOGSO' because he'll sound like a moron

They managed that between them

 

[CaptainsPlease]

So, without the Comms, how were you so sure he had applied the protocol wrong?

DOGSO is the only decision that can be reviewed.

It's very clear the handball was missed, this is reasonably objective in this case, so the only thing Gillet needs to work out is was it a DOGSO aka as a serious missed incident.

The reports that came out from those that were privy to the VAR Comms was he determined it was not DOGSO and therefore could not be recommended for review. Nothing was said, that I heard, about clear and obvious.

The commentators heard every word that Gillett said, he said it wasn't DOGSO as the play was going wide. Once he utters those words that's it, check complete, there's nothing left to review.

They are also effectively one and the same thing in this case. The handball is largely irrelevant, VAR just has to determine if it was DOGSO and if so whether the on-pitch officials made a clear and obvious error in not penalising it.

Thanks I can take it that what he said was in all likelihood relayed accurately, though it is still reasonable to consider he was probably subconsciously predisposed to not intervene on this given sending off a GK is one of the most impactful decisions to make.

 

[bloovee]

Without the comms, we aren't sure whether Gillett was reasoning for not DOGSO or for not C&O.

There was a clear and obvious error. Presumably he reasoned that it was not a C&O error that gave rise to DOGSO.

 

[bloovee]

Match officials for this match appointed by the FA not PGMOL …..

Where do the FA get the referees?

 

[Archer]

Where do the FA get the referees?

Random draw at the Eve Rally. Never been?

 

[Russell Jones]

Where do the FA get the referees?

Across the totality of the FA Cup matches, the FA select their ‘own’ Level 2-4 referees for the majority of the games. This is then supplemented by County officials for some of the early rounds and PGMOL officials for the later rounds.

The fact remains that the absence of any public PGMOL commentary on this match / decision is unsurprising, given that they didn’t appoint the specific officials to the game.