A&H

Overruling the Lino

OldNavyRef

OldNavyRef

RefChat Addict
Level 5 Referee
Had one today. First goal of the day club lino sticks his flag up. Now for me something about it was off, he was very delayed and I just think he knew it would be close so he popped it up.

I overruled him, because I was wasn't 100% sure myself, but I knew he wasn't either and I just felt like he was cheating. Maybe not even on purpose.

I overruled the home team, this was only the 30th minute and there was a crowd + a Veo. Queue 15 minutes of, we'll be watching the video at half-time ref and a crowd chant of that too. Also a few of the old ones in the crowd saying I'll be hating my life choices once I see the footage.

Well I found the footage on YouTube, I have a still from the footage below. Balls slightly in front of 5s head, it is being hoofed up the field.

Everyone ran to the club house at half-time, then they came out complaining about other things for the second half.

The club lino did make me feel awful, basically saying he's not a cheat (I genuinely believe he isn't) and that I have made him look a right whatever.

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A&H International
Not entirely sure what that image shows or proves, as unless I am missing it you can't see the point of the ball being played.

CARs are just that, an unqualified person trying to help you out. More often than not they are honest, but they also aren't trained and they will, as I suspect was the case here, watch the game rather than the defensive line. Meaning that by the time they actually look in front of them the offside situation is very different to what it was when the ball was played, and in fairness a lot of qualified referees do exactly the same when running the line.
 
RustyRef said:
Not entirely sure what that image shows or proves, as unless I am missing it you can't see the point of the ball being played.

CARs are just that, an unqualified person trying to help you out. More often than not they are honest, but they also aren't trained and they will, as I suspect was the case here, watch the game rather than the defensive line. Meaning that by the time they actually look in front of them the offside situation is very different to what it was when the ball was played, and in fairness a lot of qualified referees do exactly the same when running the line.
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Maybe I didn't make it clear. I am just trying to post a lil win Rusty let me have it.

The player was onside and I had to deal with a nightmare of a game where I was made to feel quite small.

I know what a CAR is.

But the issue I had was the CAR and the home team piled on me after the call, I was left during the game expecting to come across a club score of 01 and the video showing me making the blunder in the email.

But I got lucky.

 
OldNavyRef said:
Maybe I didn't make it clear. I am just trying to post a lil win Rusty let me have it.

The player was onside and I had to deal with a nightmare of a game where I was made to feel quite small.

I know what a CAR is.

But the issue I had was the CAR and the home team piled on me after the call, I was left during the game expecting to come across a club score of 01 and the video showing me making the blunder in the email.

But I got lucky.

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Having now seen the video rather than a still you have got that spot on so well done.

Do you speak to the CARs before the game to tell them what you want? I always say something like "please don't be offended if I say no to an offside flag, it might just be because I have a better angle".
 
RustyRef said:
Having now seen the video rather than a still you have got that spot on so well done.

Do you speak to the CARs before the game to tell them what you want? I always say something like "please don't be offended if I say no to an offside flag, it might just be because I have a better angle".
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"Just outs and offsides please, I once had an club assistant that called fouls and it ended terribly" then I tell them the story.
 
Viridis1886 said:
@OldNavyRef that is a quality overrule there. I'd have gone with the CAR but you got that spot on.
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I nearly always go with CARs. Only reason I don't. Which has been 3 or 4 times in my life is when they delay the flag, looks unsure then a defender or bench yells at them to get the flag up.
 
Looks like it's the correct call but going forward, do you want to be overuling a club AR over these close calls. I can't see the ball but you're not looking so cannot overule due to having a better angle etc and this is really close so a tough one for a club AR.

So the decision is correct but if you're going to be overuling CARs because it's a delayed flag etc then you are going to give yourself much tougher games than necessary. Unless you're sure they're "cheating", I'd leave it down to the CARs and save yourself some aggro!
 
Ben448844 said:
Looks like it's the correct call but going forward, do you want to be overuling a club AR over these close calls. I can't see the ball but you're not looking so cannot overule due to having a better angle etc and this is really close so a tough one for a club AR.

So the decision is correct but if you're going to be overuling CARs because it's a delayed flag etc then you are going to give yourself much tougher games than necessary. Unless you're sure they're "cheating", I'd leave it down to the CARs and save yourself some aggro!
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Fully agree.

Honestly, not sure the video gives it justice, but his delayed flag was prompted by a sharp, "get your flag up" from his bench.

The player was finishing as he raised the flag.

I almost never get involved. This was rare for me and I immediately regretted it, and was left expecting to see a video on their twitter or Facebook putting my feet to the coals.
 
I think you have to be absolutely certain to overrule a club AR on an offside call. If they get it wrong, people may moan but nobody will really blame you as the referee. If you overrule and you're wrong, you've lost the whole game on that 1 incident.
 
I would say the other manager is saying very loudly, “well done referee, miles on side” repeatedly, surround yourself with the ‘happy’ people when a goal is scored. 😒 Any contentious goal, you will have one happy team & one disgruntled team, back yourself, good call, well done.
 
DJIC said:
I would say the other manager is saying very loudly, “well done referee, miles on side” repeatedly, surround yourself with the ‘happy’ people when a goal is scored. 😒 Any contentious goal, you will have one happy team & one disgruntled team, back yourself, good call, well done.
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This is a great mindset to get yourself into during the heat of a match. You may have dropped a clanger and one team thinks you’re literally Hitler… but 16 other blokes think it’s a brilliant decision.

We can all talk about safe decisions or an easy life, but on instinct you went with your opinion (the only one that matters), stuck to your guns, and were proved correct. Job done!
 
Massively trying to add stick to the happy people to my game.

Whenever the going gets ruff, just run 20/30 yards to an area where no one is angry.
 
I'm slowly learning that you are not going to make everyone happy by your choices, and not everyone is going to think you got it right even when you prove you are. It is sad that in today's game where technology is king, your doubts will always be played with.
 
In the Southend leagues when I started Reffing there were no CAR’s. Although it was challenging & almost impossible to get all decisions correct (& I don’t know for sure how many of my decisions were correct), when I moved up to Nottinghamshire who had CAR’s it was a breath of fresh air!
 
JamesL said:
"A team official who uses unauthorised equipment or who behaves in an inappropriate manner as a result of the use of electronic or communication equipment will be sent off."
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As a Bolton fan, I can tell you that last season Ian Evatt was sent off for trying to show the 4th video footage of an incident during the game. This is really quite a broad part of the laws that is generally underused. Anyone who has received stupid abuse based on the club’s “footage” could probably justify a SO under this.
 
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