They use to be there - that is why players/commentators still say it was unintentional, when they try and justify horror tackles
OOch!!
- Thread starter Sheffields Finest
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They use to be there - that is why players/commentators still say it was unintentional, when they try and justify horror tackles
Does it? Just from a quick search the word 'deliberate' occurs 33 times in the laws
Is Ming protected from a criminal charge of ABH?
PinnerPaul
RefChat Addict
and you're right BUT NONE them realte to kicking an opponent (I just checked!)
Most relate to handball, rest are either entering/leaving fop or relate to a deliberate touch. The only other deliberate act to judge is when a player 'hits' someone.
But I knew that without looking everyone of them up unlike @PinnerPaul
PinnerPaul
RefChat Addict
Blimey - its hard work on here at times - obviously I knew that otherwise I wouldn't have picked up on the post debating if the stamp/kick was deliberate or not!
@PinnerPaul you're right as ever
Taking the LOTG as a whole, I think the reason why the laws use deliberate rather than intentional is because as a referee we can observe a deliberate action but we can never judge a player's intent by doing that action
Taking the LOTG as a whole, I think the reason why the laws use deliberate rather than intentional is because as a referee we can observe a deliberate action but we can never judge a player's intent by doing that action
This is being reviewed by the FA according to a local Journo.
PinnerPaul
RefChat Addict
To begin with - those on this board who have been out with me, will tell you that first line is nonsense for a start!
Back to the matter in hand! That's an interesting distinction - but isn't a deliberate act an intentional one?
I'm genuinely not sure if I agree with that or not!
To begin with - those on this board who have been out with me, will tell you that first line is nonsense for a start!
Back to the matter in hand! That's an interesting distinction - but isn't a deliberate act an intentional one?
I'm genuinely not sure if I agree with that or not!
By definition, yes, but as said before it's impossible to judge someone's intent (unless you're a mind reader)
On a side note:
If I take the example of a deliberate handling offence which stops a promising attack.
We give the free kick for a deliberate handball and caution for SPA. We can never be sure that the player's intent was to stop the attack but we judge the fact that it did and the action of deliberately handling together as a cautionable offence
Tell me I'm not talking rubbish here
If I take the example of a deliberate handling offence which stops a promising attack.
We give the free kick for a deliberate handball and caution for SPA. We can never be sure that the player's intent was to stop the attack but we judge the fact that it did and the action of deliberately handling together as a cautionable offence
Tell me I'm not talking rubbish here
socal lurker
RefChat Addict
On a side note:
If I take the example of a deliberate handling offence which stops a promising attack.
We give the free kick for a deliberate handball and caution for SPA. We can never be sure that the player's intent was to stop the attack but we judge the fact that it did and the action of deliberately handling together as a cautionable offence
Tell me I'm not talking rubbish here
Until the recent great re-write, SPA did require intent--the wording was "for the purpose of" or something like that.
Before the prior great re-write, all fouls had to be intentional. But the interpretation of a foul wasn't that different, as intentional had always been in reference to the act, not the result. In other words, the leg was intentionally stuck in and tripped the player was enough--we didn't ask "did he intend to trip the opponent." While there is an enormous amount of hand-wringing over the linguistic differences between deliberate and intentional, my view is that they simply used a different word (virtually a synonym) as a way of emphasizing the overall change more than any real difference between the words. (Indeed, in criminal law, deliberate considers higher degree of mental culpability (deliberate implies conscious intention). But neither deliberate nor intentional in the LOTG can be viewed from a dictionary--they are both used as terms of art.
PinnerPaul
RefChat Addict
On a side note:
If I take the example of a deliberate handling offence which stops a promising attack.
We give the free kick for a deliberate handball and caution for SPA. We can never be sure that the player's intent was to stop the attack but we judge the fact that it did and the action of deliberately handling together as a cautionable offence
Tell me I'm not talking rubbish here
No you're not - that's a good example.
FA have confirmed there will be no action taken