A&H

Offsides with CAs

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Froominator

New Member
So did the basic course last year and did first game a while back. Then had over 6 weeks until second game this weekend. 2 CAs one of whom was a sub for the away team and totally disinterested. Other guy was with the home team (not a player), but eager, enthusiastic and seemed very keen to show me how honest he was. Arguing loudly with his own players over whether ball had gone out, tried to flag his own side for a foul throw which I overruled and even tried talking me out of booking an away player for a shoving an oppponent in the chest following a foul.

2-2 with around 15 mins left, away side put together a decent move and through ball from edge of the penalty area finds striker clean through who buries it. Home CA's (honest John) flag goes up immediately for offside. I'm not in position to overrule him, but had my doubts. Away team seem VERY upset by it, but I simply didn't feel like I could credibly overrule him from where I was.

The question is about using CAs for offsides. Would you ever overrule? How often might you give offside without CAs' input? For me, the problem would always be with selling the decision, if I'm 10-15 yards away from the last defender then how can I credibly give an offside that I think the CA might have missed? And would you ever overrule a CA's offside flag in a situation such as the one above?
 
The Referee Store
CA's are only supposed to flag for ins and outs, When I ref, I ask for ins and outs, if they offer to flag for offsides, I tell them that I will consider their opinion (flagging) but the ultimate decision rests with me, so not to feel aggrieved if i overrule them. Like wise when I offer to run the line for my sons team. I let the ref know that I too referee and does he want me to flag for offsides, the general response that i get is the same - don't feel aggrieved if I get overruled.
 
Froominator said:
The question is about using CAs for offsides. Would you ever overrule? How often might you give offside without CAs' input? For me, the problem would always be with selling the decision, if I'm 10-15 yards away from the last defender then how can I credibly give an offside that I think the CA might have missed? And would you ever overrule a CA's offside flag in a situation such as the one above?
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Please, for the love of God, let's not again have the wider debate about the relative merits of using CAs to give offsides. Accepted practice varies wildly from county to county and you will find passionate advocates of allowing them to give offsides and equally passionate supporters of leaving them with the bare minimum. Suffice to say, my experience is that the more effort you put into (briefly!) briefing them, thanking them and including them, the better support you're likely to get ... does NOT always work though :)

With regard to your specific question ... I would only overrule if I saw a clear and obvious mistake. For example at the weekend, I had a forward come back from a position 5 yards offside and head a ball that had been in the air a while. CA completely missed it so I gave it. You're right, it is extremely hard / impossible to judge a border line call from way out of line with the last defender so don't do it! With regard to the OP, if the CA had proven himself to be honest throughout the game then even less likely I would overrule late in the game. Obviously it's possible that he'd been 'setting it up' from the very start but I'd be tempted to give the benefit of the doubt on this one!
 
Russell Jones said:
Please, for the love of God, let's not again have the wider debate about the relative merits of using CAs to give offsides. Accepted practice varies wildly from county to county and you will find passionate advocates of allowing them to give offsides and equally passionate supporters of leaving them with the bare minimum.
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Please, can we? I love a pointless debate where each side will not budge from their position....can we? Can we?
 
As someone who's used CAR's for offside throughout my refereeing career so far, I would definitely agree that you're unlikely to find yourself in a credible position to make a judgement call, unless you've specifically identified one AR as less....."credible" and are adjusting your position to double check his calls.

Generally speaking, if an NR is keeping up with play and has a record of honesty, there's no reason not to go with their decisions. Occasions where I might overrule is if they're failing to keep up with play, if they've flagged early against someone who's not become active, or if they've not seen a touch that would otherwise make an offside call wrong. In most other cases, including that described in the OP, I'd go with them.
 
I suppose a question to ask yourself was if the CAR was not doing offsides for you and you were on your own would you have penalised an offside offence.?
What gave you doubt? Did he look to be onside or was there some mistrust in CAR decision or was it because the defenders were going bat:poop: crazy?
The answer to your question is yes you can and should over rule CAR when they have made a clear and obvious error. I know this brings with it the breakdown of whatever you've built between yourselves in the game but you have to remember these guys arent trained qualified referees so are working on a best endeavours basis.
Disclaimer;
From an area where we DO NOT use CARs for offside.
 
In my area, accepted practice is for AR's to help with offside.
Personally, I think one can only justify going against the CAR if you're certain the decision is incorrect. Saying 'no' when the flag is raised is a big call and likely to upset a team, so you want to be sure you're doing it.
Though I might lower the bar a bit for one who is truly terrible/questionable - though if that's the case I'd be adjusting my position to monitor the offside myself anyway like I had no AR's at all (as is often the case).

But this is why for certain things like free kicks around the area I prefer to position myself around the offside line, like I would if I was by myself.
 
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