Junior/Youth Offside when attacker advancing on keeper

[mushroomcounter]

I'm a dad running the line for a youth team (without training) and am wanting to do things right, hence this enquiry.

At a recent match an attacker had a habit of over-eagerly advancing well past the last defender before the ball was played over the top to them. I'd be running back towards the goal line and once I had judged there being no prospect of any other player (e.g. goalkeeper) getting to the ball first, or of it going out of play, I would raise my flag well before there was any chance of a clash with the goalkeeper. There was no contention about it being an offside.

My question is about where I should be standing having raised my flag. Play was always restarted with an indirect free kick level with where I was standing but I was aware that I had stopped running back and raised my flag at a fairly arbitrary position somewhere between the last defender and the goalkeeper. So:
1. Where should I be standing with my flag up?
2. Where should play be restarted?

Many thanks for any replies.

 

[zarathustra]

The kick is taken where the offence occurs and you should signal from a position inline with that, (with the exception of when the offence occurs inside the attackers own Half).

In your example, an early flag is good to prevent a collision, so signalling at the point it becomes obvious that it is going to go to the offside player, or that they will reach it first is probably best.

 

[Ciley Myrus]

The kick is taken where the offence occurs and you should signal from a position inline with that, (with the exception of when the offence occurs inside the attackers own Half).

In your example, an early flag is good to prevent a collision, so signalling at the point it becomes obvious that it is going to go to the offside player, or that they will reach it first is probably best.

Just a reminder, the restart as of start of last season can indeed be in the attackers own half, if indeed its deemed thats the point at which they have gained advantage, got involved in the play etc......

 

[A Freethinker]

I would stand myself on the sideline, inline with where the offence occurred. .....Seriously though, in line with where the offence occurs or he becomes active, to me if he starts in an offside position and starts to run straight away he is becoming active flag up.

As an untrained Asst the delay method is extremely dodgy to be going by and letting the ball travel 20yards to the keepers hands isn't any advantage to them. Get your flag up early unless it is obvious that one of the attacking team players is charging through.

 

[zarathustra]

Just a reminder, the restart as of start of last season can indeed be in the attackers own half, if indeed its deemed thats the point at which they have gained advantage, got involved in the play etc......

That's what I meant, as an AR you wouldn't go past the half way line to signal. Or at least, on the odd occasion where the free kick has been given in the attackers own half the ARs have signalled from the half way line.

 

[Ciley Myrus]

I dont know if that topic has been raised before on this forum
I do know when I have neutral AR then I would like the AR to go into the other half if needed. Yes fans and players still dont get how offside restart can be in the other half
Too many folk seem to think the AR must never cross the half way line
When raised at our meeting there was no definative answer from the top table, so if anyone does have the official rubber stamped answer to that, then that would be great!

 

[JamesL]

I dont know if that topic has been raised before on this forum
I do know when I have neutral AR then I would like the AR to go into the other half if needed. Yes fans and players still dont get how offside restart can be in the other half
Too many folk seem to think the AR must never cross the half way line
When raised at our meeting there was no definative answer from the top table, so if anyone does have the official rubber stamped answer to that, then that would be great!

Good question...
My thoughts are on this one is that
1) it is up to the referee to decide where exactly the free kick should be taken. Yes, AR can assist but ultimate responsibility and communication of positioning lies with man in the middle.
2) I cant find anywhere that says AR shouldn't enter the other half. What it does say is that the AR should remain in line with the second last defender.

I do think that it is the norm for AR to remain in one half as it makes it easier to judge in own half or not on a counter and in some extreme cases all 11 players may make their way to the opponents penalty area therefore I would not expect to as an assistant or an assistant of mine go all that way into the other half to remain with second last defender so therefore it makes sense that the AR should remain within the normal patrol area of 1 half.

 

[Ciley Myrus]

Good question...
My thoughts are on this one is that
1) it is up to the referee to decide where exactly the free kick should be taken. Yes, AR can assist but ultimate responsibility and communication of positioning lies with man in the middle.
2) I cant find anywhere that says AR shouldn't enter the other half. What it does say is that the AR should remain in line with the second last defender.

I do think that it is the norm for AR to remain in one half as it makes it easier to judge in own half or not on a counter and in some extreme cases all 11 players may make their way to the opponents penalty area therefore I would not expect to as an assistant or an assistant of mine go all that way into the other half to remain with second last defender so therefore it makes sense that the AR should remain within the normal patrol area of 1 half.

Nearly the point I was making ! What I mean is, AR is in "own" half.......striker IS offside but say, touches the ball 10 yards in his own half....I would expect the AR to flag at half way line for the offside, however, I would have no issues with, after the whistle and play is clearly stopped, the AR making his way 10 yards into the other half in line with the restart.
No way was I suggesting the AR actually "gives" the initial flag for offside in the other half
Am sure someone will have the world approved not to be messed with answer on it !
Course we all know the situation where the striker is one on one 40 yards out, having left the 2nd last defender for dead.....meaning of course you don't stay with the 2nd last defender, you are haring it up the park with the attacker.....

 

[JamesL]

Course we all know the situation where the striker is one on one 40 yards out, having left the 2nd last defender for dead.....meaning of course you don't stay with the 2nd last defender, you are haring it up the park with the attacker.....

Yeh my instruction is second to last defender or the ball. Whichever is closest to goal line.

 

[santa sangria]

I am running the line a lot - well, 4 quite high level games in the last 10 days - and I am attentive and quick. I say this because: in the real world there is no way for the AR to signal at the exact perpendicular spot where the player became active a lot of the time. Partly this is because so many offsides are given when there might be: 1) a GK collision 2)or when the attacker is heading to a corner and is the only player able to play the ball or 3) when the attacker comes back in front of the defence to become active and the AR has to stay with the 2nd last defender, and from today 4) long shot rebounds off woodwork to attacker in offside position. Then there are blatant offsides where play has moved quickly with wait and see where it is basically impossible for the AR to signal level as the player becomes active. In my experience, especially with high level youth games, I just don't have many "normal" offsides.

It is - and has to be - the referee's decision to spot the IDFK after offside. The fact the refs are not doing this is stopping players understanding the application of the updated offside law. Every time a player looks across at the AR to spot the IDFK I sigh.

 

[RustyRef]

I'm sure that FIFA issued advice in relation to when an attacking player stood in an offside position as the ball was played went back into his own half to play the ball. This was that the assistant should not cross the half way line and rather advise the referee that the free kick should be taken the non-normal side of the half way line. Try as I might though I can't find it.

 

[Ciley Myrus]

I would be fairly certain the above is correct

I know as referee it happended to me once last season where I wrongly restarted following a NAR offside, which should have been in the other half. Had he been standing ten yards in that half I would not have made that mistake though!

 

[AlexF]

I'm sure that FIFA issued advice in relation to when an attacking player stood in an offside position as the ball was played went back into his own half to play the ball. This was that the assistant should not cross the half way line and rather advise the referee that the free kick should be taken the non-normal side of the half way line. Try as I might though I can't find it.

There was definitely a piece of FA guidance that came out last summer about it. Not sure if it was theirs alone, or if they were simply the messenger from a missive from "on high".

 

[Peter Grove]

It was a document issued jointly by the PGMOL, EFL, FA and the Premier League. The IFAB (who should be the ones to issue such advice rather than FIFA as it is not really within their remit any more) have remained deafeningly silent on this matter.

The document does indeed say (in part) that:

ARs should not cross the half-way line when signalling or communicating an offside offence. The half-way line should be the furthest point at which they position themselves.

And that

Referees should take control of positioning of the restart as they would on any other FK situation in their half of the field of play.

The full document was included in a previous thread:
http://www.refchat.co.uk/threads/flagging-procedure-for-offside-in-own-half.8067/

 

[MentalFrix]

I cover this in pre-match. I had one decision like that all season (2016-17). I ask my assistant to give me the flag on the halfway line. If the touch was in the attackers own half then an obvious step over the halfway line will alert me and I will then know what is going on.

 

[Ciley Myrus]

I like the thinking above, even if its not the rubber stamped not be messed official answer of all answers.
I don't see how it can be frowned upon

 

[MentalFrix]

I see no difference to that than I do for exactly the same indication for foul outside of the penalty area. Not one assessor has queried it. Yet.

 

[Ciley Myrus]

Other than the post above you quoting some bodies making it clear that the AR is not the cross the half way line then yes it sounds reasonable. Of course, difference being foul outside the pen area does not involve crossing the halfway line.
I would have no bother with a AR stepping into the other half for this in my game and I would have no bother witnessing this as observer.
However if the rubber stamped official not to be messed with document of all documents says otherwise, then so be it.

 

[MentalFrix]

I totally accept that the official line says oherwise. I feel this is the best way to effectively communicate a decision that clearly hasn't been thought through for officials without comms sets! I feel confident enough that my assistants will manage but can you imagine trying to set this up with a CAR?! Most wouldn't even know it was an IDFK in the first place.

 

[bester]

How can you flag on the halfway? The second last defender could be more than 20-yards from the halfway line by the time the attacker becomes active e.g. attacker runs back from an offside position into his own half for a header, opposition defender drops off to cover any flick ons.

Referee should be aware what's happening when the assistant puts his flag up and makes the coming back signal.