The Ref Stop

Offside - PGMOL clarification (in discussion with ifab)

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Just boils down to common sense. IFAB can't word scenarios they expect to happen particularly well, so we apply common sense for situations like that in the Villa game which reflect the intent of the Law
 
Just boils down to common sense. IFAB can't word scenarios they expect to happen particularly well, so we apply common sense for situations like that in the Villa game which reflect the intent of the Law
But even that can’t be agreed as we seen in the original chat. Many people agreed with the decision and many didn’t.
 
Not sure how much I agree with this. In my opinion, it was more Mings’ fault for taking a bad touch into a player who wasn’t challenging him. Surprised at this, but it will definitely cause less debate, so that’s always a positive! (now it’s guaranteed that this will happen this weekend and be offside and then the new guidance is even more controversial...)
 
Give it a few years and they might put this 'clarification' in the laws
Yes, I bet the majority of World's Refereeing Community will be blissfully unawares

Anyway, this decision boils down to self-preservation. Often I make the 'right decision for me and my game', rather than worry about what the book may or may not intend. Sometimes, when I haven't done this, things have gone a bit tits up :oops:
 
Can’t wait for peoples arguements over their interpretation of the word immediately

so many questions...so few answers...

i find it quite bizarre that they havent defined it! at what point can rodri challenge mings for the ball? seriously? he cant challenge the initial chest control, we know that. can he challenege after the first touch with his foot, we presume not as that's what happened here 2nd though, or 3rd etc etc? does he have to get back 'onside' first or is it a period of time?
 
Regardless of the debate around the original decision, I can't see how they can keep issuing new interpretations during the season. The law of sod dictates that it will happen again in a Villa game, this time with them being penalised for offside.

I agreed with the original decision, but I also agreed with those saying the law was morally wrong. So I am all for changing the interpretation, just not in the middle of the season.
 
While PGMOL is spinning it as "the referee was right but we're changing it," I doubt that is what IFAB is saying. I think IFAB is saying that challenging an opponent has always been separate from interfering with play/gaining an advantage, and it has always been an OS offense for an OS attacker to immediately pounce on a defender as soon as the defender plays the ball. That idea, as many of us posted in the other thread, is absolutely not a new one--it just hasn't been as clear and universally understood as it needs to be and is very poorly articulated in the Laws.
 
Ha!
Also here: https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-offside-guidance-after-outcry-at-silvas-goal

I thought the other thread was good. And I’m happy - but not surprised - that my Finnish peers were ”right”.

I am a bit surprised that PGMOL got this ”wrong” as we have been trained on it before and this idea if immediately impacts/challenging.

For me it’s also the ”right” decision for the game. But, big but, giant holes remain in the LotG here. The criteria are not clear enough.
 
Someone should have told PGMOL that they didn't need to go and consult IFAB for this. They only needed to come and read my posts in this forum. :p :D

I don't think the article is saying we were right at the time and we are changing the interpretation. It's basically saying its not very clear in law and we got the intent of it wrong (without actually taking the blame for being wrong). We will not get it wrong anymore.
 
Regardless of the debate around the original decision, I can't see how they can keep issuing new interpretations during the season.
As others have already said, I don't think they are issuing a new interpretation here, I also think they're just pointing out what the intent of the law was already supposed to be anyway.

As I said in my post on the closed thread, I always thought the "challenging an opponent for the ball" clause was the correct one to apply here, not the "receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball" clause that the PGMOL initially (and others on here, I might add) wanted to invoke.

It always seemed to me that actively taking the ball off an opponent is not the same as "receiving" it from them - in fact, in some ways the two concepts are pretty much diametrically opposed.

So maybe my thinking wasn't so old-fashioned after all. :rolleyes:

As for the debate over how long to allow before the opponent can be challenged, I would say it's more a question of timing rather than any fixed number of touches.

I would agree with anyone who says the defender isn't allowed an unlimited amount of time on the ball after receiving it, before being challenged and exactly how much time is allowable is going to be somewhat open to interpretation but I certainly think it should be longer than Mings had in this incident. Based on my timing of it with the stopwatch feature on my regular wristwatch, Rodri takes the ball off Mings' toe 57/100 of a second after Mings' first touch of the ball with his chest.

I think that however much time you're going to allow before a challenge is legitimate, is has to be longer that that.
 
I mean I’m one of those who agree with the original decision so we will just leave that where it is.
Oh, I think you're being a little modest there. You did more than just agree with it, you actively (and I would say, rather aggressively) denigrated those who said they disagreed with it, even going so far as to imply that one contributor was deliberately choosing to ignore a clear law.

I actually think you might well consider whether you owe an apology to some of those that you criticised in a fairly outspoken manner - this was never a case of a clearly right or wrong decision, it was always something that was open to legitimate debate.
 
Oh, I think you're being a little modest there. You did more than just agree with it, you actively (and I would say, rather aggressively) denigrated those who said they disagreed with it, even going so far as to imply that one contributor was deliberately choosing to ignore a clear law.

I actually think you might well consider whether you owe an apology to some of those that you criticised in a fairly outspoken manner - this was never a case of a clearly right or wrong decision, it was always something that was open to legitimate debate.
I’m not sure if you have me confused with someone else from the other thread?
I never targeted anyone at all and actually quite surprised and offended you use the word aggressive.

I certainly owe no one an apology.
 
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