A&H

Offensive, insulting or abusive language

I did a game once at Bramall Lane with about 250 watching, you could virtually hear every shouted comment along with laughter etc. Had the crowd been 25,000 I don’t think you’d hear anything clear, maybe a cheer ot a boo but nothing audibly understandable. SKY make it out that lip reading is easy but that’s a camera angle not a Ref angle.
 
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Wonderful example tonight. I didn't give a penalty tonight (the perceived offence happened just outside the box anyway). Cue calls from an assistant coach that I was "making it personal" amongst other garbage (never heard that before). Asked him to quiet down as I was right up with play and didn't see an infringement and that I would accept no more comments like that and I'd be asking him to leave if he continued. That lead to further dissent from the keeper (Who saw yellow). Game quietened down (these teams had been involved in a fiery encounter at the weekend apparently and this was a relegation decider).

Thanks to those who advised to be firmer with dissent to us newbies and ex players who do try too hard to 'manage the situation (I certainly did until recently).

Another point id like to raise and ask for clarity from those more knowledgeable than I. Before the game I was made aware by the home team manager that the away team had 2 players on the team sheet who were unregistered and that the away team were under investigation by the league for fielding these players in the previous match. The home team manager showed me the list of players registered on the full time site and the 2 players concerned were not on the registered players list.

I put this to the away team manager that this had been highlighted and he said this was true but they had permission to play by the league as it was an administration error, to which he had emails suggesting that to be the case from the league secretary. I explained to both teams that we would play the game but I will be putting this in my report, including the names of the players, which both managers were happy with.

Now when I went to register my 4 cautions (season high!) In WGS, the two players concerned were on the list of registered players (neither were booked, I just checked the list).

So registered on WGS but not on the league website, info which I'll put in the report to show I've seen it and dealt with it either rightly or wrongly?

Thoughts? Was I correct or have i made an error? Thanks in advance
 
Ben448844 said:
Wonderful example tonight. I didn't give a penalty tonight (the perceived offence happened just outside the box anyway). Cue calls from an assistant coach that I was "making it personal" amongst other garbage (never heard that before). Asked him to quiet down as I was right up with play and didn't see an infringement and that I would accept no more comments like that and I'd be asking him to leave if he continued. That lead to further dissent from the keeper (Who saw yellow). Game quietened down (these teams had been involved in a fiery encounter at the weekend apparently and this was a relegation decider).

Thanks to those who advised to be firmer with dissent to us newbies and ex players who do try too hard to 'manage the situation (I certainly did until recently).

Another point id like to raise and ask for clarity from those more knowledgeable than I. Before the game I was made aware by the home team manager that the away team had 2 players on the team sheet who were unregistered and that the away team were under investigation by the league for fielding these players in the previous match. The home team manager showed me the list of players registered on the full time site and the 2 players concerned were not on the registered players list.

I put this to the away team manager that this had been highlighted and he said this was true but they had permission to play by the league as it was an administration error, to which he had emails suggesting that to be the case from the league secretary. I explained to both teams that we would play the game but I will be putting this in my report, including the names of the players, which both managers were happy with.

Now when I went to register my 4 cautions (season high!) In WGS, the two players concerned were on the list of registered players (neither were booked, I just checked the list).

So registered on WGS but not on the league website, info which I'll put in the report to show I've seen it and dealt with it either rightly or wrongly?

Thoughts? Was I correct or have i made an error? Thanks in advance
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Don't get involved in player eligibility issues. By all means looks at evidence such as ID cards so if the league then ask you what happened you can help them, but that is the limit of your responsibility.

Sounds like you handled it pretty much perfectly to me.
 
RustyRef said:
Don't get involved in player eligibility issues. By all means looks at evidence such as ID cards so if the league then ask you what happened you can help them, but that is the limit of your responsibility.

Sounds like you handled it pretty much perfectly to me.
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Good to hear. No ID cards so play the game and report is the tactic. Thanks for the clarification, that removes the nagging doubt.
 
Ben448844 said:
In WGS, the two players concerned were on the list of registered players
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I wouldn't take whole game system's word for it. I've seen names on there from my mates that played for that team 2/3 years ago, also different spellings of the same name etc. I presumed it just saves all previous entries for that team, hence the multiple spellings and past players. As @RustyRef said, player eligibility is not your problem, if they want to play ineligible players, let them and just give the league a heads up.
 
Once had this issue and at the end of the game, home team lost, the managers told me it was being submitted as a 1 - 0 home win.........

Now that was reported to the CFA and League within ten minutes of me getting home!
 
A strong line on dissent, particularly early on, should eradicate this sort of language in 95% of all cases. If a player wants to be an idiot when your prepared to be strong then more fool him
 
Ben448844 said:
As a first season ref, I found this to be very useful, thanks for posting.

What I find difficult to comprehend though is that this advice is not adhered to in professional football. You watch a PL game on tv and the OFFINABUS that goes on towards officials is constant and the criteria for red cards is met constantly throughout the game yet it's very rarely applied.
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I went to a talk by a Premier League ref at one of the local RA's. He's fairly local and is a good friend of my local RA, so is always happy to spend time giving talks and have chats afterwards. He got asked directly about why the top referees don't clamp down on dissent/OFFINABUS and his response was based on a number of points:

1) In one ear they have a headset to listen to their AR's/4th Official and quite often there are things being said over the comms system which mean that they don't always hear what the players are saying
2) Many of the stadia are very loud, so unless the player is right close to you screaming you often can't see it
3) TV pictures are often misleading. He gave an example of getting asked why he didn't take action against Wayne Rooney in a game, the camera shot cut to Rooney mouthing something and gave the impression he was right by the referee, whereas the reality was he was 40 yards away speaking to one of his players.
 
Had a bit of an easy one today;

Player kicked out, brought him over cautioned him, he said 'oh eff off', so I sent him off. >_>

His team and management weren't happy, apparently I should be sending everyone off for swearing behind my back. I explained that it is quite different, and beside I can't hear it so don't really care unless it's directed at me, which this unfortunate lad happened to do. Fun times.
 
RobOda said:
Had a bit of an easy one today;

Player kicked out, brought him over cautioned him, he said 'oh eff off', so I sent him off. >_>

His team and management weren't happy, apparently I should be sending everyone off for swearing behind my back. I explained that it is quite different, and beside I can't hear it so don't really care unless it's directed at me, which this unfortunate lad happened to do. Fun times.
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Surely he should have been walking for the violent conduct?
 
Let him explain the severity before jumping to conclusions. Kicking out can have various connotations. Could be serious, may be over exaggerated!
 
Padfoot said:
Surely he should have been walking for the violent conduct?
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Sheffields Finest said:
Let him explain the severity before jumping to conclusions. Kicking out can have various connotations. Could be serious, may be over exaggerated!
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Fair point, poor choice of words on my part. It was like a tripping attempt, but well after I blew the whistle for the original incident, soft, but stupid really, nothing excessive just... stupid. Guy was just sporting for a fight I think, bad day at work?

7 minutes is all it took.
 
Sheffields Finest said:
Let him explain the severity before jumping to conclusions. Kicking out can have various connotations. Could be serious, may be over exaggerated!
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Did you not see the question mark at the end of my sentence? Tends to imply that I was looking for some more detail rather than making a judgment?
 
RobOda said:
Fair point, poor choice of words on my part. It was like a tripping attempt, but well after I blew the whistle for the original incident, soft, but stupid really, nothing excessive just... stupid. Guy was just sporting for a fight I think, bad day at work?

7 minutes is all it took.
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Ok.

Consider that if this happened well after play had been stopped, that there was no reason for him to attempt to trip/kick his opponent and therefore any amount of force used is excesssive.
If he’s not challenging for the ball, how much force are you going to allow him to use to kick his opponent?

Appreciate it’s one of those “had to be there” situations but don’t fall into a trap of thinking that minimal force in certain situations isn’t violent conduct.
 
There are many tripping incidents in games over a weekend, hardly ever are players sent off for VC in the main PF, of course it could be VC, but given the opportunity he has corrected his initial phrase used. You used the word 'surely' in your sentence too, that inferred that he'd probably erred. It was a loaded question IMO looking for a negative response. You may have put.. 'Could it possibly have been' or something else less abrasive, I get the tone, but I'm used to it, he may not be and experienced practical advice would surely be helpful to a newer colleague.... !!! Peace!! ;)
 
Sheffields Finest said:
There are many tripping incidents in games over a weekend, hardly ever are players sent off for VC in the main PF, of course it could be VC, but given the opportunity he has corrected his initial phrase used. You used the word 'surely' in your sentence too, that inferred that he'd probably erred. It was a loaded question IMO looking for a negative response. You may have put.. 'Could it possibly have been' or something else less abrasive, I get the tone, but I'm used to it, he may not be and practical advice would be helpful to a newer colleague.... !!! Peace!! ;)
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Don’t call me Shirley........:D
 
Padfoot said:
Ok.

Consider that if this happened well after play had been stopped, that there was no reason for him to attempt to trip/kick his opponent and therefore any amount of force used is excesssive.
If he’s not challenging for the ball, how much force are you going to allow him to use to kick his opponent?

Appreciate it’s one of those “had to be there” situations but don’t fall into a trap of thinking that minimal force in certain situations isn’t violent conduct.
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I had this two weeks ago in a top of the table clash with three games left. Big tension from the start and I sent a player off for VC for attempting to kick an opponent well after the whistle. The player, his manager, and almost his entire team went nuts at me becuse “he didn’t even touch him” “it wasn’t that hard of a kick out”...i enjoyed baiting them. I said “oh so he didn’t actually kick him? Was it just an attempt to kick”....”yes ref”...right attempt to kick is a red card, thanks for confirming. Off you go.

It countinued after the match from the manager. You can’t send someone off for attepting to kick or every foul is a red card...bla bla. Of course I ruined the game etc.
 
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