Observation report
- Thread starter Rob123
- Start date
I agree with you -- and without having seen the match, I don't know that Rob's foul tolerance is a major development point based on the match, or if the observer just likes "propah football." Nevertheless, the report itself doesn't fill me with confidence, even if I think that this point is a fair point.
Edit: I will also say that 32 fouls is a foul every nearly 3 minutes; while that might be slightly elevated, I don't think it automatically represents a low threshold for tolerance. I've done plenty of matches which weren't outrageously out of hand wherein we had a similar number of fouls. The point here is that the number of fouls is not necessarily indicative of the referees' tolerance level being incorrect and, in this case, the number is not so astronomically high that it definitely says that. Since the observer didn't provide clear examples of trivial contact being called as a foul, I just have to think that the observer counted the number of fouls, found that he didn't like the final number, and determined that the ref was soft. Which is a shame.
Last edited:
And although I defended the observer's previous remark, I will not defend his advice here. The way he suggests you manage things (i.e.: by demands and threats) is not going to make you any friends before the match. In fact, he's actually relatively contradictory in this advice: first, he says that you should inform the teams that the spectators should be behind the barriers, then he says that you should not wear a bib because it's the team and competition's responsibility to ensure there are no clashes; surely it's also the team and competition's responsibility to ensure that spectators are behind the barriers and well behaved, but in that instance you're expected to "manage" the situation, while in the other situation, you're expected to be a hard head about it.
Honestly, mate, this observer sounds like he's a bit of an "old school" guy and your 6.0 reflects more on his perception of your approach to refereeing (which may be more modern and is probably more cooperative) than his preference (which is probably more old school and favours a schoolmaster's approach). I agree that it should be appealed, but I don't know how strong the grounds for appeal are. You may have to just chalk this up to a bad experience, in the end.
socal lurker
RefChat Addict
One thought in the bib. (I‘m not in the UK, so I haven’t a clue about the observation process, so this comment isn’t about that.) on the one hand, the bib seems like a no big deal, why is it even mentioned kind of thing. But think a bit further. There is a rule that the team has to wear bibs, not the ref. When you’re the ”nice guy” and do it instead, you send a couple of messages that you don’t intend. First, you don’t look like a referee. That may seem small, but it isn’t. It affects perception and doesn’t help your authority. Second, since the teams know the pay are the one who should change, they know they can influence your decisions, as they already got you to make one you shouldn’t have. (And it can be amazing how fast a team can suddenly “find” its other jerseys when told they‘ll need to find bibs to be able to play today . . . )
Appeals are generally only allowed where the written text is wrong in law or the mark awarded does not match the written text.
I think its important to not come across as just appealing for appealing's sake and hitting the very obvious marks Vs written text.
The 2nd case is harder. It's generally well known that referees shouldn't wear a bib. Competition rules state that clubs shouldn't wear black or dark kits and that the referee must wear black or another designated colour.
I think on that basis it's a development point. I just don't like how it is written. I'd be looking for so actual advice on what to do before "walking away".
With respect to the spectators, again its poor wording. In any eventuality it is the home teams responsibility to actually deal with spectator issues and what I suspect is actually that the observer means that the OP should have taken the expected action of asking the home team to deal with it, ie place spectators behind the barrier. I suspect that NO action was taken, and whilst written in a really poor manner which suggests something else it is probably valid development and so there is, I believe, a much lower chance of appealing this section.
RefGod
Active Member
Absolutely appalling material. Contact relevant coordinator immediately.
If it was 7 to 6 or 6 to 5 I would probably just give closed book advice, but 5 to 4 is different and there is no way a referee aiming to go into semi-professional football should be bowing to pressure from clubs to wear a bib.
When he says "there were barriers today", what sort of venue was this? If a permanent barrier, such as at a semi-pro ground then there will also be technical areas, in which case you have an element of responsibility for ensuring that only players, subs, and nominated coaching staff are inside the barrier. Whereas if it was a respect type barrier that is much less of your issue to enforce, although that has me thinking that surely they aren't observing you for 5 to 4 on youth football?
To appeal you would need to email your observation coordinator, as soon as possible after receiving the report and certainly within 7 days. This email should clearly state where you think the advice is incorrect in law, and / or where specifically you believe the mark awarded does not reflect the written text. This can include that major / minor development advice has been given but with no timed examples to check this. A warning though, an appeal can and often does send the mark down rather than up as there may be other sections where the observer has marked 7.5 or higher and not provided timed evidence. So before you appeal make absolutely sure that any 7.5 or above is properly evidenced, if they aren't you have to consider whether the potential marks you gain might be less than those you might lose.
When he says "there were barriers today", what sort of venue was this? If a permanent barrier, such as at a semi-pro ground then there will also be technical areas, in which case you have an element of responsibility for ensuring that only players, subs, and nominated coaching staff are inside the barrier. Whereas if it was a respect type barrier that is much less of your issue to enforce, although that has me thinking that surely they aren't observing you for 5 to 4 on youth football?
To appeal you would need to email your observation coordinator, as soon as possible after receiving the report and certainly within 7 days. This email should clearly state where you think the advice is incorrect in law, and / or where specifically you believe the mark awarded does not reflect the written text. This can include that major / minor development advice has been given but with no timed examples to check this. A warning though, an appeal can and often does send the mark down rather than up as there may be other sections where the observer has marked 7.5 or higher and not provided timed evidence. So before you appeal make absolutely sure that any 7.5 or above is properly evidenced, if they aren't you have to consider whether the potential marks you gain might be less than those you might lose.
Certainly at step 3-4 & 5-6 only the appealed competency is considered now, rather then the whole report.
Don't think that has made it to 5 to 4.
