The Ref Stop

Newcastle vs Man United

Mooseybaby

Mooseybaby

Retired big bad baldy in all black!
Incident packed first half...

Man Utd given a penalty for handball. Newcastle's Mbemba arm was up at 90 degrees to his body for a long time, corner comes over his head, turns his head away from the ball and towards Fellaini who behind him at the far post, Fellaini heads the ball back towards goal and Mbemba's raised arm blocks the ball.

Mike Dean had a good view and didn't hesitate to point to the spot. Robbie Savage and Glenn Hoddle on BT scream it's never a penalty, Howard Webb (who during his ref'n days denied some blatant calls and gave some very soft ones) agrees with Mike Dean and says penalty.

Whilst there's an argument of ball to hand, Mbemba's arm is raised for a long time and appears to make little effort to move it. Had I been stood where Mike Dean was, would have given it myself.

Newcastle appeal for a penalty after Lingard's challenge from behind on Janmaat in United box, not given. Savage, Hoddle and Webb all agree it should have been given. Lingard gets out smarted by Janmaat, wraps his legs around the Newcastle players and only makes contact with the ball after he wipes out the Newcastle player. should have been a penalty for me, but easy to say from the sofa! ;)

No shortage of drama in the 2nd half either!

Well done Mike Dean, brilliant decision! Great to see Rugby tackling at a set piece finally punished. Smalling all over Mitrovic like a rash and yellow carded for his troubles. Would be great to see more referees following Mike Dean's example, but sadly I doubt it! :confused:

Entertaining incident packed game for the neutral! :)
 
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The Ref Stop
agree on everything you said!

i was going mad at the TV when Dean was being castrated by the pundits!! along comes Webb to tell them basically 'shut up' ... and then they still say it wasn't!! Mbemba jumps with his arm in the arm - as soon as he does this then that's preparing for a penalty shout. don't jump and wail your arms in the air, surely this is basic football guidance? not £50k a week coaching tactics?
 
I thought we'd blown it when ManUre went 2-0 up to be honest, never mind Rooney's goal 10 minutes from the end. Good stuff to watch, but I'd rather have a few boring 1-0 victories from now thanks. :oops:

Mike Dean's penalty decision against Mbemba was correct. Wave your arms about like that in the area and you deserve all you get. (Just like the Leicester lad at the weekend).
Well battled Toon. :)
 
Just watching highlights now here. I think...

Mbemba handball - no pen.

Lingard on Janmaat - foul and pen.

Smalling on Mitrovic - great decision. Pen.
 
my mind cant process how any person that has taken the LOTG test can say Mbemba isn't a penalty?

HIS PLAYING FOR NEWCASTLE FOR CHRIST SAKE!!! :D;)
 
Mooseybaby said:
Incident packed first half...

Man Utd given a penalty for handball. Newcastle's Mbemba arm was up at 90 degrees to his body for a long time, corner comes over his head, turns his head away from the ball and towards Fellaini who behind him at the far post, Fellaini heads the ball back towards goal and Mbemba's raised arm blocks the ball.
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He was watching the ball unti lthe moment it disappeared behind him - but the defender headed it immediately behind his arm. This is about as clear a DHB penalty as you can get, IMO. Can't see any possible argument against this one.

The rugby tackle, again, can't see any argument against this. Pity there's no card for getting in the referee's face to yell at him.

When was the penalty that wasn't given? didn't see it in the clip.
 
Charlie Jones said:
agree on everything you said!

i was going mad at the TV when Dean was being castrated by the pundits!! along comes Webb to tell them basically 'shut up' ... and then they still say it wasn't!! Mbemba jumps with his arm in the arm - as soon as he does this then that's preparing for a penalty shout. don't jump and wail your arms in the air, surely this is basic football guidance? not £50k a week coaching tactics?
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You jump with your arms by your side?
I'd quite like to see that.
 
deusex said:
You jump with your arms by your side?
I'd quite like to see that.
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You certainly don't jump with your arm sticking out at a right angle!!
Arm goes up at the start of the jump but then you tuck your arms into your chest. Jumping 101. If you do anything different, then 100% your fault if you handle the ball.

Surely you're not trying to argue this was accidental handling?
 
deusex said:
You jump with your arms by your side?
I'd quite like to see that.
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Mbemba wasn't even jumping when he started waving his arm in the air. It was ridiculously obvious to me. Spot on decision from Mike Dean, as was the decision for the foul by Smalling. :)
 
I think he lost sight of his man and the arm was a kind of a "where is he?" exploration arm.
It being stupid with your arms enough reason to give a penalty? I don't but I think most would say yes.
For me, there is no "natural position" when you are off balance.
Didn't he have his back to Fellaini at the moment of the header?
Admitedly, I have awarded, I think, one handball penalty in 300 matches so you pretty much have to catch it if I'm refereeing. The players seem to at least be content with the fact I'm consistent
I prefer my way to the EPL (ie, everything that hits your hand is handball, unless it's in the area, then we toss a coin!)
 
I think Smalling and Mitrovic (was it?) were fouling each other HOWEVER considering Smalling should have 7 penalties given against him EVERY match I'm not going to argue the toss.
Plus any penalty given for holding in the box can only benefit the game.
Plus Newcastle were denied the most obvious pen shout IMO
 
deusex said:
I think he lost sight of his man and the arm was a kind of a "where is he?" exploration arm.
It being stupid with your arms enough reason to give a penalty? I don't but I think most would say yes.
For me, there is no "natural position" when you are off balance.
Didn't he have his back to Fellaini at the moment of the header?
Admitedly, I have awarded, I think, one handball penalty in 300 matches so you pretty much have to catch it if I'm refereeing. The players seem to at least be content with the fact I'm consistent
I prefer my way to the EPL (ie, everything that hits your hand is handball, unless it's in the area, then we toss a coin!)
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1) He wasn't off balance
2) He stuck his arm out at right angles and kept it that way. He jumped for the ball and kept his arm out that way. How can that NOT be considered deliberate if he then handles it?
3)While he had his back to the player, he stuck his arm about a foot in front of the opponent's head, so if he headed it, only 1 thing was going to happen. Also, if your arm is in a position it has no justification being in, then your visibility of the ball is completely irrelevant.
 
CapnBloodbeard said:
if your arm is in a position it has no justification being in, then your visibility of the ball is completely irrelevant.
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Wow, I'll have to disagree completely.
A player with his back to the ball is almost incapable of committing a handling offence for me.
And the Newcastle defender is def mid air when the ball hits him - that's pretty off balance.
But having watched the video a dozen times I think it's prob a penalty
 
So, what you're saying is that a defender can stick his arms right out to the side, and as long as he turns away from the ball that's fine?
What's the difference between this and having the arm in an unnatural position but not having time to reach?
 
CapnBloodbeard said:
So, what you're saying is that a defender can stick his arms right out to the side, and as long as he turns away from the ball that's fine?
What's the difference between this and having the arm in an unnatural position but not having time to reach?
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Turning away from the ball after it's on it's way to him no.
If he has his back to the ball when it is sent toward him then yes.
In that situation it doesn't matter where his hands are, it's almost impossible to handle a ball you don't see coming

*edited after certain situations were pointed out
 
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So I presume that you would never penalise a player if he hasn't had the chance to react to a ball coming in front but his hands were in an unnatural position, such as arms out to the side?
Why wouldn't a defender just turn their back and stick their arms out if they think a ball might be coming in?
Sounds like a good trick for the wall!
 
deusex said:
Turning away from the ball after it's on it's way to him no.
If he has his back to the ball when it is sent toward him then yes.
In that situation it doesn't matter where his hands are, you can't deliberately handle a ball you don't see coming
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So if a team defending a free kick lined up along the goal line with their hands in the air and their backs to the ball you wouldn't penalise if the ball struck a hand and stayed out?
 
McTavish said:
So if a team defending a free kick lined up along the goal line with their hands in the air and their backs to the ball you wouldn't penalise if the ball struck a hand and stayed out?
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I concede, In this very extreme example I would have to penalise them.
I cannot think of a realistic scenario where I would though.
 
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