A&H

Newcastle v Man City

L

ladbroke8745

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Can't say much about first half... Only saw the added time...

Right to book Rodri for his retaliation foul, but Bruno G was at risk I feel for a 2nd yellow as ref played advantage for what I think was reckless foul.
Early 2nd half...
Dan Burn gets away without caution for his foul outside the box - something that was quite a deliberate SPA in my opinion. But Silva gets a card for something similar 10 yards further out....
 
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Missed the first 5 minutes and the incident that resulted in Edison's injury. Commentary team were critical of the keep the flag down directive. Think City were right to be aggrieved with the inconsistency of the Dan Burn non -card followed by Silva's yellow, both cynical.

Cracking game of football 👍
 
Mooseybaby said:
Missed the first 5 minutes and the incident that resulted in Edison's injury. Commentary team were critical of the keep the flag down directive. Think City were right to be aggrieved with the inconsistency of the Dan Burn non -card followed by Silva's yellow, both cynical.

Cracking game of football 👍
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The problem with the delayed offside is it was very close. It wasn't one of those where he was 5 metres off, it was more like a metre or less so very little blame can be apportioned to Neil Davies for not flagging immediately. The media are quick to criticise for this but they would be up in arms if a referee flagged early and it was then proven to be onside and a potential goal was denied.

As an aside, for all the commentators (Darren Fletcher and Ally McCoist) were critical of the late flags they also pointed out that they don't blame the officials as that is what they are told they have to do. There's lots of criticism of these late flags but I don't think anyone has ever managed to come up with a viable alternative.
 
This really wound me up last night. I totally appreciate that you’ll never get consistency between referees and across games, but at the very least the referees have to be consistent across a single game. No issue with the RodrI or Bernardo cautions in isolation, but Bruno committed a late reckless challenge seconds before Rodri and should have received a second yellow, and the Dan Burn challenge was pretty much identical to Bernardo.

RustyRef said:
The problem with the delayed offside is it was very close. It wasn't one of those where he was 5 metres off, it was more like a metre or less so very little blame can be apportioned to Neil Davies for not flagging immediately. The media are quick to criticise for this but they would be up in arms if a referee flagged early and it was then proven to be onside and a potential goal was denied.

As an aside, for all the commentators (Darren Fletcher and Ally McCoist) were critical of the late flags they also pointed out that they don't blame the officials as that is what they are told they have to do. There's lots of criticism of these late flags but I don't think anyone has ever managed to come up with a viable alternative.
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I’ve been consistent on the fact that this would lead to injuries since VAR was introduced and City have now lost John Stones and Ederson to injuries as a result.

There‘s no perfect solution, but the AR’s in the PL are among the best in the world, so just let them make the decision. I’d be willing to bet that 99% of calls will be right in real time.
 
Matthew said:
There‘s no perfect solution, but the AR’s in the PL are among the best in the world, so just let them make the decision. I’d be willing to bet that 99% of calls will be right in real time.
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Maybe, but the law of sod dictates that the 1% that they get wrong will lead to goals being incorrectly disallowed. Then the ARs will get grief for either getting it wrong or not delaying the flag.

I do find it amusing that people forget what used to happen before VAR. Most weeks there were very tight offsides and the same people that bemoan lines being drawn now used to complain about tight offsides being wrong.
 
The delaying the flag rule caused serious injury in a Wolves v Liverpool game during COVID - Wolves' keeper (Rui Patricio) was hit in the face by Conor Coady's knee and received treatment for 14 minutes before being taken to hospital
 
Gabe said:
The delaying the flag rule caused serious injury in a Wolves v Liverpool game during COVID - Wolves' keeper (Rui Patricio) was hit in the face by Conor Coady's knee and received treatment for 14 minutes before being taken to hospital
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Nit pick: the delay did not cause the injury. behavior after the delay caused an injury that would have been avoided had the flag gone up. It’s not the same thing.
 
The delaying the flag situations for injuries is such a nothing point. How many delayed flags have we had since it was instated years ago and there’s really only 2, maybe examples of an injury. You remove the delayed flag and then next week a manager moans because of an incorrect flag causing a goal to be disallowed. Funnily enough with managers and pundits there’s a lot of complaining but not much in the way of suggestions to improve it
 
When a goal is scored we see a VAR check for any potential offside, yet when an offside is given we see no such check as to whether it was correct and stopped a potential goal scoring opportunity. I wonder if we will ever see a scenario where offside is only given if it led to a goal?

I remember the Shelvey one for Newcastle where he put the ball into the net after the flag went up and VAR showed him onside so it stood.
 
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RustyRef said:
And ironically Souness's main complain seems to be that the ball was played backwards so cannot be offside.

This just adds further weight to the argument that ex-players cannot be involved in any way with VAR.
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RustyRef said:
The problem with the delayed offside is it was very close. It wasn't one of those where he was 5 metres off, it was more like a metre or less so very little blame can be apportioned to Neil Davies for not flagging immediately. The media are quick to criticise for this but they would be up in arms if a referee flagged early and it was then proven to be onside and a potential goal was denied.

As an aside, for all the commentators (Darren Fletcher and Ally McCoist) were critical of the late flags they also pointed out that they don't blame the officials as that is what they are told they have to do. There's lots of criticism of these late flags but I don't think anyone has ever managed to come up with a viable alternative.
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I wouldn't call this "very close".

1705306254542.png

Not that PL ARs haven't made wrong decisions on less close calls, but in terms of whether the VAR rules need a rethink, it would need a definition of how "close" a call it would need to be for an AR to flag (and still wait for the offside position to turn into an offside offence). The mindset would have to be not "without VAR would I be flagging?" but "I know it's offside, but could I bear the shame if it wasn't?"
 

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bloovee said:
I wouldn't call this "very close".

View attachment 7067

Not that PL ARs haven't made wrong decisions on less close calls, but in terms of whether the VAR rules need a rethink, it would need a definition of how "close" a call it would need to be for an AR to flag (and still wait for the offside position to turn into an offside offence). The mindset would have to be not "without VAR would I be flagging?" but "I know it's offside, but could I bear the shame if it wasn't?"
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So bring "clear and obvious" into the minds of the AR when they're deciding if they should flag?
 
it's an impossible question to resolve

the process will always cause frustration and the possibility of injuries whilst any alternative ends up (potentially) disallowing goals unjustly.

the only suitable alternative is a much quicker version of semi automated offside which confirms instantly if a player is offside the moment the ball is played. we're obviously some way from that yet...

just frustrating from a fan point of view that we've lost two of our biggest players to injuries that would have been avoided without VAR
 
bloovee said:
I wouldn't call this "very close".

View attachment 7067

Not that PL ARs haven't made wrong decisions on less close calls, but in terms of whether the VAR rules need a rethink, it would need a definition of how "close" a call it would need to be for an AR to flag (and still wait for the offside position to turn into an offside offence). The mindset would have to be not "without VAR would I be flagging?" but "I know it's offside, but could I bear the shame if it wasn't?"
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Difficult to tell from that image, but it looks to me that the ball is some distance from his foot so either has already been played or is yet to be played. But even if that is at the point of the ball being played it is still close enough for PGMOL to expect them to delay, we are talking around 2 metres rather than 5 metres. Pretty much every assistant at all levels have had lapses of concentrations and flagged people offside that are clearly onside, and vice versa, so I totally understand the delaying policy.
 
If that is the right moment, I don’t think it should be a delayed flag. Does anyone know how long the AR has been in the PL? it seems that every ref who starts doing VAR games overcompensates in delayed flags because it is so hard to counter years of reflexes on flagging.
 
socal lurker said:
If that is the right moment, I don’t think it should be a delayed flag. Does anyone know how long the AR has been in the PL? it seems that every ref who starts doing VAR games overcompensates in delayed flags because it is so hard to counter years of reflexes on flagging.
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AR2 so it would be Neil Davies, who has been on the EPL for around 5 years I'd say.

I don't think that is the right moment though, I recall it being a lot closer and Trippier's right foot is nowhere near kicking the ball in that image.
 
RustyRef said:
AR2 so it would be Neil Davies, who has been on the EPL for around 5 years I'd say.

I don't think that is the right moment though, I recall it being a lot closer and Trippier's right foot is nowhere near kicking the ball in that image.
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Totally agree @RustyRef . More generally, looking at still images will always make the decision seem WAY easier / more obvious than watching a full speed video. Worth bearing in mind that on a typical 'crossover' offside call, the defender can easily be running out at 5m/s and the attacker going a similar speed in the opposite direction. Therefore the overall picture can change by at least one metre in a tenth of a second .....
 
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