Newcastle v Brentford

[ladbroke8745]

Yes, again, I know its Brentford and I dont want to cause issues but im genuinely curious about 2 pen shouts.

First, few minutes gone, Trippier clearly pulls Lewis-Potter back (even see the shirt leave the body/arm) yet not given and VAR didnt see as C&O.
This would have been a red card if given.

The second one, one i can see not given but was, was handball where the ball was literally going on the goal if not handled. Surely has to be a red card.

Just not getting the decisions given.

 

[bester]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2020199944515383368

Not seen it but from that still it's in a natural position so no offence.

It was given as a penalty so presumably he's leaned into it and deliberately handled it

 

[ladbroke8745]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2020199944515383368

Not seen it but from that still it's in a natural position so no offence

This one, as i did say I have seen not given and can argue that response too, but then you could argue it was out, he moved it towards the body whilst also straightening (strengthening) the arm to expect contact. But surely if given its a red.

And here is the first one.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2020190698574626857

 

[RustyRef]

Yes, again, I know its Brentford and I dont want to cause issues but im genuinely curious about 2 pen shouts.

First, few minutes gone, Trippier clearly pulls Lewis-Potter back (even see the shirt leave the body/arm) yet not given and VAR didnt see as C&O.
This would have been a red card if given.

The second one, one i can see not given but was, was handball where the ball was literally going on the goal if not handled. Surely has to be a red card.

Just not getting the decisions given.

Haven’t seen it as watching the rugby, but for the second one if the handling was due to the arm being in an unsupportable position it can only be a yellow card. Would only be red if a deliberate handball, I.e. saw the ball and deliberately moved the hand towards it.

 

[ladbroke8745]

So I said penalty straight away for the Newcastle penalty. Didn't see how minimal the touch actually was but it was still a foul. But no card, whatsoever? Surprised Kayode didn't get a yellow.

 

[Tealeaf]

1: It’s a minor holding offence and never enough to cause his legs to be collapse like that. If Trippier had sustained his holding rather than grabbing and letting go almost immediately then I’m saying something different.

2: That’s the textbook definition of the non-deliberate DOGSO as envisioned in the revised law.

3: It’s a trip but occurs as part of the running motion so careless feels right. A challenge causing a trip and again like 1, I’m saying something different- in this case definitely supporting a caution.

 

[Kes]

I watched the Murphy handball incident several times and still can't tell for sure if tha ball was going in or not.
I also think Murphy was unfortunate since he was in the process of bringing his arm back down to his side when the ball struck.
I think the first Brentford penalty call should have been given though since even though the attacker had kneed the ball too far ahead of him to control it, this still took place after Trippier's tug.

 

[Peter Grove]

Haven’t seen it as watching the rugby, but for the second one if the handling was due to the arm being in an unsupportable position it can only be a yellow card. Would only be red if a deliberate handball, I.e. saw the ball and deliberately moved the hand towards it.

Yes, as @Tealeaf also alludes to, it's the non-deliberate handling denial of a goal/goal scoring opportunity clause that was recently introduced.

Where a player denies the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by committing a non-deliberate handball offence and the referee awards a penalty kick, the offender is cautioned.

 

[bester]

Yes, as @Tealeaf also alludes to, it's the non-deliberate handling denial of a goal/goal scoring opportunity clause that was recently introduced.

The hand was in an expected/natural position for me.

The twitter match centre did say it was given for non-deliberate handling. Caution was given so must've been a DOGSO downgrade..

https://twitter.com/x/status/2020206930816299409

 

[RefereeX]

I've spoken to someone in the know (and in the know with VAR too) about these recent handball decisions. What he told me about the interpretation is that yes, for an arm to be punished as non-deliberate handball, it still has to be making the body unnaturally bigger, however the closer to the goal line that contact with the arm occurs (and the more certain it is that the arm solely stopped the goal) the smaller the acceptable body silhouette becomes (and thus the greater chance of an arm being decided to be making the body unnaturally bigger)

 

[bester]

@RefereeX Be very precise, and use the term non-deliberate handball. PGMO incorrectly used the term accidental, and if they're doing this routinely it's maybe why they're confusing themselves with the law

Accidental handball is a term I'd only use for handballs given due to a goal being scored directly/immediately, from the handling, that were neither deliberate or non-deliberate

 

[RefereeX]

@RefereeX Be very precise, and use the term non-deliberate handball. PGMO incorrectly used the term accidental, and if they're doing this routinely it's maybe why they're confusing themselves with the law

Accidental handball is a term I'd only use for handballs given due to a goal being scored directly/immediately, from the handling, that were neither deliberate or non-deliberate

Apologies, yes, that was my own wording, not the chap I spoke with who knows better! Lazy wording from me, and I do know the difference.

 

[one]

The more they tweak the handball law the more confusing it gets. The changes have not only made the handball law more complex, it has complicated the DOGSO law, SPA, and offside (have I missed anything?).

In hindsight the deliberate / non-deliberate classification was a bad bad idea. Too entrenched in law now to reverse it.