A&H

New Grounds and 4G (or 3G)

N

NERef

Member
Level 4 Referee
Was assistant at a newly built Contrib ground on Saturday which has a 4G (or 3G pitch, the one with the rubber stuff).

Anyway, ground was at a school, caged in like you would get at a leisure centre but with the appropriate steps in place to achieve ground grading at that level, seating, hard standing all the way round etc.

There are other teams at this level with this type of pitch here but not the layout of the ground itself. The crowd was 251 with only one fella from the away team chanting. It was the first time I've been to a competitive match and the facilities really made it feel like a friendly. The club will benefit as they will get the majority of games on and not postponed and will be able to hire the pitch out for extra revenue but that "feel" of competitive football just wasn't there. The smell of the grass and mud was missing, no atmosphere and just a general lacking of something. Anyone else experienced this? I found it hard to get up for it but still did my job!

At least I don't need to clean my boots for next week!
 
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There is a Bostick (Formally Ryman) team near me with astro and I have been AR for U23 games there (Back next Monday) -wouldn't say the pitch affects the 'atmosphere'. Its easier for players and officials I think - so quality of match is better and easier for us to run!
 
Depends on the ground type.. I have been to 4/3G pitches that have nothing round them, which I hate going to as it just doesn't feel competitive. However, it is a ground-type ground I still get that feeling. I do hate officiating on artificial pitches though...
 
Have done many games on astro. Don't like them. Very unforgiving on the knee.
They are becoming more popular because of availability all year round.
 
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There's a new 4g/3g round here, and they've been certified for use with moulded studs. Which is interesting, because I'm pretty sure every guide out there on football boots suggest you absolutely don't use moulded studs as they wear them out and void any claims for damage to the boots.

I rocked up there with 3g compliant trainers and was told they weren't suitable. :(

Anyway, I didn't enjoy refereeing on it, felt like I had too much grip on the turf and wasn't getting to move about as freely as I could. I've decided that next time I'm there, I'm going to do the warm up in the 3g trainers and see if they're suitable. If so I'll use them over the moulded studs.
 
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I have tried all different sorts of boots on the over the years, soft and firm ground studed, astro turf boots, running boots,... they all have too much grip and a jarring effect on the change of direction at speed. Worse on the older grounds as AR because the area you run is compacted.
Heat and surface temperature is another problem here on sunny days at say 25 degrees plus. Last Sunday I was on astro and it was 30 degrees in my first game.

There is only one ground I sometimes go to which has solved both grip and heat problems by installing giant water canons at each corner and water the pitch before the game and at half time.
 
RobOda said:
There's a new 4g/3g round here, and they've been certified for use with moulded studs. Which is interesting, because I'm pretty sure every guide out there on football boots suggest you absolutely don't use moulded studs as they wear them out and void any claims for damage to the boots.

I rocked up there with 3g compliant trainers and was told they weren't suitable. :(

Anyway, I didn't enjoy refereeing on it, felt like I had too much grip on the turf and wasn't getting to move about as freely as I could. I've decided that next time I'm there, I'm going to do the warm up in the 3g trainers and see if they're suitable. If so I'll use them over the moulded studs.
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3G guidelines attached
 

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You've never had it so good! Has to be mostly the rubber chips astro round here - used to be that lower league games were on sandy gravel. Try doing a 10km 90m on that! Astro is a joy to behold!
 
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Rules for the 3G pitch at Harrogate Town.

"Please note there is a strict footwear rule enforced at the CNG Stadium on the 3G surface. Only AstroTurf trainers or plastic studded boots are permitted on the 3G surface. This is in order to protect the surface and prolong its life and quality. This includes the dugout area and void between the pitch and advertising boards.

Flat soled trainers/shoes or metal studded boots are not permitted. To clarify, for example, running shoes, and trainers such as Adidas Sambas/Nike Air are not AstroTurf's. High heels and steel cap boots are also not permitted."
 
one said:
Have done many games on astro. Don't like them. Very unforgiving on the knee.
They are becoming more popular because of availability all year round.
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The thing is, there's a world of difference between the old 'astro-turf' pitches and the latest 4G surfaces. I think it's unfair to even refer to the modern ones as 'astro-turf' - it conjures up completely the wrong idea. The original-style artificial pitches had no base layer or padding whatsoever whereas the new ones (if compliant with the standard) have plenty of padding and are in my experience, while not as good as a well-tended, natural grass pitch in temperate climates or conditions, much preferable to either a frozen, baked-hard or poorly-maintained grass surface.
 
Peter Grove said:
The thing is, there's a world of difference between the old 'astro-turf' pitches and the latest 4G surfaces. I think it's unfair to even refer to the modern ones as 'astro-turf' - it conjures up completely the wrong idea. The original-style artificial pitches had no base layer or padding whatsoever whereas the new ones (if compliant with the standard) have plenty of padding and are in my experience, while not as good as a well-tended, natural grass pitch in temperate climates or conditions, much preferable to either a frozen, baked-hard or poorly-maintained grass surface.
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Agree with reference to astro not being the correct term. All the ones (close to a dozen different ones) I run on are 3G or 4G. The problem is not the padding, its with the grip. Haven't run on frozen grounds but we do have some very dry dust bowls with only small patched of grass at the end of the season which wont fair well against a 3G. But I still prefer an average grass covered pitch to an artificial.
 
On our referees course practical we played on a 3G (or 4G, I can't tell) pitch. On my first darting run with the ball down the wing I lost my footing and fell over :p:eek::D. I was wearing my new plastic moulds for hard ground, within about 15 mins or so I'd got used to the pitch.

In my opinion, the more of these type of pitches (quality standard) the better! Reduced risk of games being called off, better training venues and extra revenue for struggling clubs.

I think nostalgia takes part in 'atmosphere'. We all love the packed in old grounds with higgledy stands and terraces, you don't get that with new grounds no matter if they're grass or artificial.
 
As someone with glass ankles, I absolutely prefer a decent 3/4G pitch over a grass pitch. They're well padded, grippy enough that I can turn comfortably without having to exert too much effort and perhaps most importantly, a consistent flat surface. Nothing worse for me than my foot landing partially in a divot and twisting unexpectedly, which you just don't get with artificial pitches.
 
GraemeS said:
As someone with glass ankles, I absolutely prefer a decent 3/4G pitch over a grass pitch. They're well padded, grippy enough that I can turn comfortably without having to exert too much effort and perhaps most importantly, a consistent flat surface. Nothing worse for me than my foot landing partially in a divot and twisting unexpectedly, which you just don't get with artificial pitches.
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as someone with glass ankles i concur! i dread turning up at (insert random northern contrib club) and finding a rutted line. i'm conscious of my ankle every step and turn i make! at one ground in particular (throstle nest) they have a strip of old style astro down the touch line which is awful for running on!

consistent surfaces like 3/4G are a breath of fresh air for me but very rarely come across them
 
I love a game on a well looked after 4G pitch.

The only problem I’ve encountered is that when it’s warm they reflect the heat so I seem to feel it more if I were on a normal park pitch.

Oh, and finding bits of rubber crumb in my kit for weeks afterwards.
 
If the grass pitch is like a carpet, like it is at the PL academies and some of the top semi-pro grounds, I much prefer it to 3G. Once you go below that quality though I would take 3G over grass every day. I don't just have glass ankles, I have glass everything, especially knees, and you are much less likely to jar a knee or go over on an ankle on a 3G than an average to rubbish grass pitch.
 
Local non league team to me have new 3g pitch installed. They will not let anyone on there wearing anything other than plastic moulded boots. astro-turf trainers are banned. This is on the advice they were given by pitch manufacturers to prolong life and to meet the terms of there warranty.
 
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