A&H

Middlesbrough v QPR

P

PinnerPaul

RefChat Addict
Well played Steve Martin.

An early penalty, a double yellow send off, an accusation of a head butt and plenty more besides.

I thought he had a good game, despite the penalty and sending off being against 'my' team - both 100% correct I thought.

My only real gripe is with the instructions they clearly receive re what's called 'game management' or time wasting as most call it!

1st half Middlesbrough and 2nd half QPR. 1st half 1 minute added and although 2nd half 10 minutes added, that was for 4 injuries and 6 subs.

Both GKs regularly took 30 seconds plus with GKS and Boro keeper took 22 seconds with one kick from his hands!

It really is a bit pointless, pointing at your watch and verbally warning the players if you then add no time on for it.

Rant over, can't be unhappy after that performance (referee and QPR!)
 
A&H International
Thanks!

Both managers opinions were as you would expect!

Warnock thought it was a definite head butt, 2 pretty obvious (to me) offsides weren't and a foul (and yellow) wasn't even a foul 'because of what happened at the Euros'

Warburton called both the pen and the red card 'outrageous'
 
I can’t work out how the penalty which was awarded wasn’t at very least a booking, maybe even a red. Dael Fry has a free header from 3 yards and is pulled back. He’s still managed to win the header so there’s no argument of not being able to get to the ball, and it’s obviously not an attempt to play the ball by the defender
 

Attachments

  • 28C0A52B-A8B6-429D-B465-DB3C42A9B6E7.png
    28C0A52B-A8B6-429D-B465-DB3C42A9B6E7.png
    3.1 MB · Views: 19
QuaverRef said:
I can’t work out how the penalty which was awarded wasn’t at very least a booking, maybe even a red. Dael Fry has a free header from 3 yards and is pulled back.
Click to expand...
Didn't want to go into too much detail, but agree, that was one of about 2 or 3 that I thought could/should have been a yellow.

I suppose fact being attacker hasn't got the ball 'under control' at point of foul saves the red, but agree you would have thought a yellow?
 
PinnerPaul said:
Didn't want to go into too much detail, but agree, that was one of about 2 or 3 that I thought could/should have been a yellow.

I suppose fact being attacker hasn't got the ball 'under control' at point of foul saves the red, but agree you would have thought a yellow?
Click to expand...
Yeah, at the very least I’m going yellow for that (I am a Boro fan so I could be slightly biased :D)

Overall I think the referee had a good game but I must say I’m unsure about his game management. There were a few times where players would walk away from him when he’s trying to talk to them and rather than calling them over, he’d just follow and talk to the back of their heads. The same for the time wasting (both sides), there were a lot of empty threats going on. I would have liked to have seen Warnock sent off at the end as well from a refereeing perspective
 
QuaverRef said:
Yeah, at the very least I’m going yellow for that (I am a Boro fan so I could be slightly biased :D)

Overall I think the referee had a good game but I must say I’m unsure about his game management. There were a few times where players would walk away from him when he’s trying to talk to them and rather than calling them over, he’d just follow and talk to the back of their heads. The same for the time wasting (both sides), there were a lot of empty threats going on. I would have liked to have seen Warnock sent off at the end as well from a refereeing perspective
Click to expand...
Yes agree about Warnock - especially as it is now written in the laws about (not) confronting referees at the end of the game or half time!

Comically I saw Warnock in an interview afterwards claiming he was just asking if he could see Steve Martin after the game!

Hmmmmmmm didn't look like that did it? :rolleyes:
 
The reason Colin behaves like this, is because he's allowed to get away with it. Apply the LOTG and the problem goes away...
ie. Colin would struggle to continue working in football
What's really distasteful about him, is the way he behaves in interviews, 'everyone's friend and butter wouldn't melt'
His on-field antics have always been completely unacceptable
 
Big Cat said:
The reason Colin behaves like this, is because he's allowed to get away with it. Apply the LOTG and the problem goes away...
ie. Colin would struggle to continue working in football
What's really distasteful about him, is the way he behaves in interviews, 'everyone's friend and butter wouldn't melt'
His on-field antics have always been completely unacceptable
Click to expand...

He is prime of what festers if you dont take action,
Guessing too many referees simply accept his antics, if in life you tolerate misbehaviour, eventually it becomes the norm.
Not for one moment suggesting premeditated thoughts but treat his action at start of game with a blank canvas, use the powers bestowed upon you as a match official, and you have carried out your duty

to ignore and accept his nonsense makes you part of the problem
 
They spoke about this on TalkSport today and got Martin Cassidy from RefSupport UK on. RSUK had gone on the offensive on Twitter and even contacted Middlesbrough suggesting they needed to take a long hard at themselves for employing Warnock. Martin Keown seemed to get it, but of all the pundits he has always been the most supportive of referees. Simon Jordan wasn't really having it, and was saying that attacking Warnock on Twitter was hypocritical given they are resorting to abuse to try and stop abuse. Cassidy accepted this but said it was needs must and no one was listening, and that Warnock's behaviour was influencing grass roots players and managers

They then, I think unknown to Cassidy, brought in Warnock himself so was a very interesting 15 minutes or so. Warnock claimed he is victimised and does nothing wrong, and comically said that in this incident he was just asking Stephen Martin if he could speak to him 30 minutes after the game and that nothing else was said. You don't need to be a lip reader to know that isn't true, but I think this is part of the problem, Warnock is so used to doing it he is actually on autopilot and afterwards can't really remember what he has done.

As always though the answer is with the referees, if he gets a red card every time he does it he will either stop or he simply won't be employed anymore. No one is going to employ a manager who spends 50% of games in the stand suspended.
 
RustyRef said:
They spoke about this on TalkSport today and got Martin Cassidy from RefSupport UK on. RSUK had gone on the offensive on Twitter and even contacted Middlesbrough suggesting they needed to take a long hard at themselves for employing Warnock. Martin Keown seemed to get it, but of all the pundits he has always been the most supportive of referees. Simon Jordan wasn't really having it, and was saying that attacking Warnock on Twitter was hypocritical given they are resorting to abuse to try and stop abuse. Cassidy accepted this but said it was needs must and no one was listening, and that Warnock's behaviour was influencing grass roots players and managers

They then, I think unknown to Cassidy, brought in Warnock himself so was a very interesting 15 minutes or so. Warnock claimed he is victimised and does nothing wrong, and comically said that in this incident he was just asking Stephen Martin if he could speak to him 30 minutes after the game and that nothing else was said. You don't need to be a lip reader to know that isn't true, but I think this is part of the problem, Warnock is so used to doing it he is actually on autopilot and afterwards can't really remember what he has done.

As always though the answer is with the referees, if he gets a red card every time he does it he will either stop or he simply won't be employed anymore. No one is going to employ a manager who spends 50% of games in the stand suspended.
Click to expand...
I was at the game my friends a QPR fan and it’s near my parents honestly think the ref missed a fair bit on both sides but he’s human anyone attacking anyone on Social Media should be reprimanded just my thoughts.
 
RustyRef said:
They then, I think unknown to Cassidy, brought in Warnock himself so was a very interesting 15 minutes or so. Warnock claimed he is victimised and does nothing wrong, and comically said that in this incident he was just asking Stephen Martin if he could speak to him 30 minutes after the game and that nothing else was said. You don't need to be a lip reader to know that isn't true, but I think this is part of the problem, Warnock is so used to doing it he is actually on autopilot and afterwards can't really remember what he has done.

As always though the answer is with the referees, if he gets a red card every time he does it he will either stop or he simply won't be employed anymore. No one is going to employ a manager who spends 50% of games in the stand suspended.
Click to expand...

Good heavens. Warnock is NOT the victim here. He deserves every bit of stick he gets for being a miserable curmudgeon in general and disrespectful to referees in particular. That video was not anything like "Hey, can I talk with you after the game?"

Governing bodies need to grow a spine and give their referees the backing to send off coaches and players for abusive behavior. A few instances of a good player or a manager not involved with the game will result in a "stop doing that since you don't provide any value in the stands" meeting. But we all know that won't happen, because coaches and players abusing referees is part of the entertainment value.
 
RustyRef said:
They spoke about this on TalkSport today and got Martin Cassidy from RefSupport UK on. RSUK had gone on the offensive on Twitter and even contacted Middlesbrough suggesting they needed to take a long hard at themselves for employing Warnock. Martin Keown seemed to get it, but of all the pundits he has always been the most supportive of referees. Simon Jordan wasn't really having it, and was saying that attacking Warnock on Twitter was hypocritical given they are resorting to abuse to try and stop abuse. Cassidy accepted this but said it was needs must and no one was listening, and that Warnock's behaviour was influencing grass roots players and managers

They then, I think unknown to Cassidy, brought in Warnock himself so was a very interesting 15 minutes or so. Warnock claimed he is victimised and does nothing wrong, and comically said that in this incident he was just asking Stephen Martin if he could speak to him 30 minutes after the game and that nothing else was said. You don't need to be a lip reader to know that isn't true, but I think this is part of the problem, Warnock is so used to doing it he is actually on autopilot and afterwards can't really remember what he has done.

As always though the answer is with the referees, if he gets a red card every time he does it he will either stop or he simply won't be employed anymore. No one is going to employ a manager who spends 50% of games in the stand suspended.
Click to expand...
Spot on RR. Referees now have the tools to sanction this type of behaviour, so must use them. For some light relief, this is from a match report on a fan's site. The guy that runs the site is a professional journalist so a cut above, well several cuts above, the usual fan's 'report'. This section made me laugh out loud, describing the scenes at the end of the game

"One manager beamed from ear to ear. The other erupted into a furious form of whatever you call the one shy of a heart attack and pursued the referee, who’d given his side one penalty, sent an opponent off, and afforded them an extra ten minutes on top of the 90 to have a crack at the reduced numbers. Perhaps he wanted him to start getting his head on a few of their attacking corners as well?"
 
PinnerPaul said:
Spot on RR. Referees now have the tools to sanction this type of behaviour, so must use them. For some light relief, this is from a match report on a fan's site. The guy that runs the site is a professional journalist so a cut above, well several cuts above, the usual fan's 'report'. This section made me laugh out loud, describing the scenes at the end of the game

"One manager beamed from ear to ear. The other erupted into a furious form of whatever you call the one shy of a heart attack and pursued the referee, who’d given his side one penalty, sent an opponent off, and afforded them an extra ten minutes on top of the 90 to have a crack at the reduced numbers. Perhaps he wanted him to start getting his head on a few of their attacking corners as well?"
Click to expand...
Was the 10 added minutes appropriate? Did a spaceship land on the FOP half way thru the 2nd half or summinc?
 
Big Cat said:
Was the 10 added minutes appropriate? Did a spaceship land on the FOP half way thru the 2nd half or summinc?
Click to expand...
Yep. 2 fairly long drawn out injuries, some legendary 'cramp', 6 subs and a bit of 'game managemen' by my team, so 10 was fair enough I thought.
 
I don't put the problem solely on referees 'not using their tools'. The problem is the culture created by the entire football community. And even more of impact, the expectations put on referees by football associations. Its about I tell you to do something but expect you to do something else.

A referee who has a lot of dissent yellow cards or bench send offs for poor behaviour is thought to have poor player/game management skills. Conversely if you don't send a coach off but instead 'talk to them' is said to have 'managed it well'. How often have we heard referees being advised, even in this forum, to manage the manageable even if it a card.

Similar on expectations on referees from football associations. The referees are told to yellow card or red card for theses, but when they do, it impacts negatively in their promotion/relegation process. Or when it goes to judicial process, their decisions get reversed. Of course this is not always the case but more the case than not. What we need is consistent backing of referees who punish poor behaviour and reprimanding of referees who don't punish it appropriately. But I don't see this happening as it doesn't hep their bottom line.
 
one said:
I don't put the problem solely on referees 'not using their tools'. The problem is the culture created by the entire football community. And even more of impact, the expectations put on referees by football associations. Its about I tell you to do something but expect you to do something else.

A referee who has a lot of dissent yellow cards or bench send offs for poor behaviour is thought to have poor player/game management skills. Conversely if you don't send a coach off but instead 'talk to them' is said to have 'managed it well'. How often have we heard referees being advised, even in this forum, to manage the manageable even if it a card.

Similar on expectations on referees from football associations. The referees are told to yellow card or red card for theses, but when they do, it impacts negatively in their promotion/relegation process. Or when it goes to judicial process, their decisions get reversed. Of course this is not always the case but more the case than not. What we need is consistent backing of referees who punish poor behaviour and reprimanding of referees who don't punish it appropriately. But I don't see this happening as it doesn't hep their bottom line.
Click to expand...

The difference here though it was so public and obvious. Managers are told that they must not confront match officials on the pitch, indeed it is now in law as an example of a sending off. You can see Steve Martin telling him to leave, once Warnock said another word after that or continued wildly gesticulating he should have been shown the red card. And then again in the next game, and then again when he does it again, and so on.
 
There is a disconnect here, I think between what IFAB writes in the book and what competition authorities expect. And IFAB doesn't appoint referees to these league games. Shocking that the referees do what the people who assign them want . . . .
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top