ManU v Liverpool - handball VAR decision

[one]

As has been mentioned, VAR have limited access to cameras compared to Sky, for some reason.
It could be that Sky hadn't released that feed to them.
It could be that the operators, despite being a few years in now, haven't been fully trained on what buttons to press to get various differing angles.
Remember, we don't see every angle by Sky live when watching. Sometimes they showed more conclusive angles at half time or full time themselves, after having maybe waited 20 minutes themselves to find it.
As I said previously, we could ask them to sit there all afternoon trawling through 40 different camera angles to find that one to rule it out (fans dont want detailed forensics, unless its against their team of course). But as fans we want speed, and the biggest thing, depending on what fanbase it is affecting at the time, is clear and obvious.
The thing fans keep saying is "if it takes this long its not clear and obvious". But the next check against them they then moan "how could they not see that. Ive watched 3 hours worth of replays and they missed it", forgetting the same procedure they expected in their favour.

Hence why I kept saying doubt previously.
Other than opinion based decision (ie fouls), factual ones... unless you want them to sit there for 5, 10+ minites to come a decisive conclusion, killing the games mood, if in any doubt go with on field call.

I know (read somewhere credible but can't remember/provide source) that broadcasters are contractually obliged to share all their camera angles with VAR.

As for having to watch 40 angles, I think you countered that yourself. Having a good operator means they would quickly filter that to less than 10, possible 5 angles. They know where all cameras are. For example the cameras on or behind the other goal would have been useless in this incident. What is surprising here, given the operators know where the cameras are, the angle that shows hand contact should have been the first or second angle they should look at. It is arguably the best angle. I am not a conspiracy theorist but how it took 22 minutes to 'discover' this angle is a huge surprise to me.

Lastly, I mentioned this before, if VAR is adapted then the full protocol has to be followed (some optionals). For VAR accuracy trumps speed of decision. It's like a FIFA sanctioned comp that decides to cautions for OFINABUS instead of send off because that is what the audience wants.

I think taking shortcuts, carelessness and pressure to make a decision quick is what caused this issue. We had a similar issue in the incident that Pickford put VVD out of action for a whole season. My educated guess is the camera angle was available, they just didn't bother to look at it.

 

[RustyRef]

I know (read somewhere credible but can't remember/provide source) that broadcasters are contractually obliged to share all their camera angles with VAR.

As for having to watch 40 angles, I think you countered that yourself. Having a good operator means they would quickly filter that to less than 10, possible 5 angles. They know where all cameras are. For example the cameras on or behind the other goal would have been useless in this incident. What is surprising here, given the operators know where the cameras are, the angle that shows hand contact should have been the first or second angle they should look at. It is arguably the best angle. I am not a conspiracy theorist but how it took 22 minutes to 'discover' this angle is a huge surprise to me.

Lastly, I mentioned this before, if VAR is adapted then the full protocol has to be followed (some optionals). For VAR accuracy trumps speed of decision. It's like a FIFA sanctioned comp that decides to cautions for OFINABUS instead of send off because that is what the audience wants.

I think taking shortcuts, carelessness and pressure to make a decision quick is what caused this issue. We had a similar issue in the incident that Pickford put VVD out of action for a whole season. My educated guess is the camera angle was available, they just didn't bother to look at it.

The broadcasters do share the footage with VAR, we often hear AVAR so he has checked the broadcast view. But if Sky only found the view that showed there was a touch 20+ minutes after the incident happened then clearly that view wasn't available to VAR.

 

[FinalWhistle]

Hang on everyone, I've just looked at the footage again on the TV broadcast and it clearly shows the handball moment from the left of Sesko complete with stills and slowmo that the VAR was looking at, so I dunno where that 22 minute lag claim comes from. So again, I maintain that if they'd just looked at it carefully enough, they'd have realised it was a handball.

However, as others have said here about the time pressure that the VAR staff are on can cause them to misjudge things, especially in marginal cases like this and I do accept that.

 

[one]

The broadcasters do share the footage with VAR, we often hear AVAR so he has checked the broadcast view. But if Sky only found the view that showed there was a touch 20+ minutes after the incident happened then clearly that view wasn't available to VAR.

We may have different understanding of how things work.
It's not the job of the broadcaster to 'find' the best angles to review. It is the job of the replay operator (Video Match Official) in the VAR room who has special training. The operator has access to all angles from all cameras set up in the stadium. They choose which ones to look at. My assumption is that all cameras belong to the broadcasters or at least they have control over them and hence make available to operator if he wishes to look at them.

This specific camera was set up on the ground, to the right hand side and just behind the goal, pointing directly at the penalty area. The operator knew it existed (so did the broadcasters but that is irrelevant). And if you are looking for a handling by the left hand, this camera feed would have been the best or second best angle to look at.

I must add there is another camera angle with an areal view also on the right hand side behind goal (the other best angle) which VAR looked at during review. But for some reason they did not use the zoom function on it which I believe would have also shown contact. Zoom with magnifying glass makes it even better and more obvious.

 

[one]

Most AFL (Australian Football Rule) games have more than a dozen goals scored on each side. If a goal is touched over the line it is 1 point in opposed to 6 points if not touched. This kind of review is commonplace in AFL. The first thing they look at as evidence is movement of the fingers when the ball goes past the hand in a zoomed replay. But the VAR from the OP for some reason only looked for deviation of the ball which with the used angles was inconclusive. I think an additional clause in their training manual is in order.