Moving hand towards the ball is a consideration for deliberate handball.
Manchester United vs Middlesbrough
- Thread starter Joshref
- Start date
The way it's taught now it's the trump card consideration. We can talk about the ball coming from a short distance and being a self-play from the body, but his arm moving towards the ball is what created the contact and it's the huge force that pushes this into handball territory.
You really think it's a deliberate handball?
We can't read minds to know if he consciously moved his arm towards the ball. All we can do is observe facts which includes that his arm moved towards the ball which is the primary consideration for the "deliberate handball" clause of the laws. Now I'm guessing it wasn't a conscious choice, but his arm significantly moved towards and into the path of the ball.
On the other hand, the ref is Taylor and the VAR is Attwell and they just spent a bunch of time in Qatar for pre-WC stuff so maybe the "self-play" consideration is really the one that trumps everything else.
I think it is fair to say his arm was in that position as part of natural play. Equally what I think "football expects" is a handball here, seemingly even the Middlesbrough bench were expecting it to be disallowed.
One of those where there is no right and wrong answer I suspect.
One of those where there is no right and wrong answer I suspect.
100% not handball and definitely a goal (I may be a Boro fan who’s running around his living room right now)
In all seriousness, at the time I called it as a goal but at the same time, in one of my games I think I give the free kick. Maybe not correct in law but it feels like ‘what football expects’
In all seriousness, at the time I called it as a goal but at the same time, in one of my games I think I give the free kick. Maybe not correct in law but it feels like ‘what football expects’
You can tell who are Utd fans...
Rules = goal
Is it deliberate? No. That's a perfectly natural position for jumping - like the rules state.
Ref didn't see it, so I doubt VAR can get involved anyway? They could if he handled it directly into the goal?
Rules will probably be changed again for another 'big club' to be negatively effected by them for them to be changed again in 3 seasons time and repeat.
Rules = goal
Is it deliberate? No. That's a perfectly natural position for jumping - like the rules state.
Ref didn't see it, so I doubt VAR can get involved anyway? They could if he handled it directly into the goal?
Rules will probably be changed again for another 'big club' to be negatively effected by them for them to be changed again in 3 seasons time and repeat.
Russell Jones
RefChat Addict
Absolutely delighted to see this goal allowed to stand (with no interest in the result tonight). Totally in keeping with the Summer change to the law. Makes me feel 100% vindicated in the three 'non handballs' I chose not to award in a recent Contrib game .. in every case, arms in totally natural position for the body movement, hence no offence, despite the players concerned gaining an advantage from the ball striking their arm.
Anubis
RefChat Addict
Well sorry but that makes no sense as var check every goal as standard plus, why do you think Taylor waited for confirmation from Atwell that the goal was good?
Slight off topic but if I was at Utd, I be more than a bit concerned out of the 2 top gks, in 2 pen shoot outs, thats 19 scored, no saves. Someone somewhere is overlooking something
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VAR protocol confuses the hell out of me as it seems depending on who is using it whether they actually follow it properly. So I've given up trying to understand what happens in Stockley Park.
What I'm trying to saying is. I don't think VAR could be involved to actually rule it out with accidental handball because it wasn't a goal directly from the hand - which would be an offence and therefore no goal.
ChasObserverRefDeveloper
Regular Contributor
VAR check every goal . . .
Anubis
RefChat Addict
On that train of thought, we have all seen goals ruled out for offences which took place in the other penalty area, 60 secs before the ball ended up in the other net?
the prem league official website has a simple guide to var
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Yes I know that.... But they can't disallow a goal by not following the rules which is what I'm saying. Did the ball go in off the players arm? No. So goal stands. That's VAR's job.
Exactly this. So many decisions/goals have been changed due to something that happened which appears to be ages before the actual goal/pen has been given. No consistency whatsoever with VAR which makes watching football a ball ache now
Anubis
RefChat Addict
so you are ok with what should have been a pk in one box, being ignored? The time passed should not nullify the legitimate pk ? If the games in progress, we cant go back to the pk until the balls out of play/games stopped
its not the VAR decisions that you appear to have discord with, its, the protocol, and, the protocol is an entirely seperate issue to the decision itself.
In Euro 2022, var " corrected" 18 decisions in the 51 matches. According to UEFA, all 18 corrections were erm, correct. If obtaining the correct ( legitimate?) call is an ache, then, ok, lets just run with the incorrect calls for a laugh.
No your example there is fine.
Example of a player being offside. The ball being played around several passes, defenders touching/clearing it...then a goal has been scored. The goal then being ruled out for offside is annoying, especially when different var officials will judge it differently as they are interpretating it in their own ways.
Euros/WC/Champions league - you know what you are in for, it is usually consistent
The referee has given the goal, so the VAR would have to deem it a clear and obvious error to recommend a review, be it an objective error (e.g. if AT had been wrong in law) or a subjective one (e.g. if the VAR was certain that it was either a deliberate handball, or that it was an unnatural position). Given the amount of debate over it, I'd say that VAR has been proved correct in not getting involved, as it's not clearly and obviously wrong!