Managers anger

[Louis Bird]

Hi RefChat,
I was officiating in an U12's 9-a-side game a few weeks ago and it was coming up to the last minute in the game and the the home team player used this elbow against the away team player. Note that this was the only bad challenge in the game and the home team were already winning by more then two goals. The game was fair contested and fouls were given throughout, as you'd expect in a normal game.
I stopped play and awarded the yellow card (caution) to the home teams player.
The away team manager thought it was a straight red and I didn't give the red card because I felt that the challenge wasn't committed deliberately.
The manager was not happy with the decision, which I thought was correct at the time and started getting really angry and was directing it at me.
I then blew for full time and the away team manager came up to me and was still shouting at me very badly.
What should I do if managers are directing their anger at me during any future games I referee in?
Thanks.

 

[Kes]

How old are you Louis, and how old was this team's manager?

The bottom line is, he has acted outside the boundaries of RESPECT protocol and the incident should have been reported to your county FA via a misconduct report. This is what should always happen - irrespective of however it did or didn't make you feel.
I suspect it made you feel quite uncomfortable or even humiliated in order for you to want to ask the question on here in the first place?

Don't allow ANYBODY to walk away from treating you in this way without consequences again mate. You might not be able to stop it happening at the time, but you can certainly make sure that offenders are dealt with appropriately afterwards and so prevent the behaviour continuing.

 

[lincs22]

@Louis Bird - Hope you are Ok after this happened. This is one of the major problems for young referees quitting early in their careers.

Practical issues:
1. If you are receiving dissent (and not abuse) from the manager on the touchline, treat as you would a player. Speak with him first and if it continues, dismiss him. If he refuses to go, you abandon the match and announce why. The other team officials will then get rid of him for the fear of the FA & league fines + other punishments.
2. It is is abuse, then dismiss immediately. No being nice. Walk over, state that attitude is not acceptable and tell him to leave the side of the pitch. More accurately, tell him to go and stand in the car park!! Report the club to the FA and is you know his name, report the name as well. You don't need to ask his name when you dismiss him.
3. If they approach you after the game, simple keep quiet. Thank him for his comments and announce that you will be reporting him for his comments to the CFA.

Speak with other referees in your area, sometime one of them will come to one of your game. they can provide advice there and then, and if the manager is too mouthy - they will stand next to him and note everything. If the manager says too much, they may even report the person to the CFA.

 

[Markt]

Hi Louis, Welcome to the forum. I hope you're ok after this treatment by someone who should really know better.
It sounds like the manager was upset because his team were losing and the fact that this happened in the last minutes meant he could focus his anger on you. If you have a manager shouting in this way in future then the first thing to do is to keep calm. If it's one person then try to move towards other people, such as the Home manager. That way you've got witnesses to what's said and people who may help calm him down. However, since there are children around this can be awkward because you don't want to involve children in an unsavoury incident like this. This should be his concern but obviously isn't.
Try to speak to him calmly, telling him that you didn't feel it was a red card. I wouldn't try to justify this, because that's giving him another reason to have a go. Try not to enter into a conversation with him. Adopting non-aggressive mannerisms, such as holding your hands forwards palms down while you talk, can help calm the situation down. Try not to stand directly facing him, but stand at a slight angle to him so that he does not see you as openly challenging him. As a younger person you can use a slightly submissive posture as a way to defuse the situation.
Try to find a way to walk away without making the situation worse, such as saying something like "I'm sorry you disagree with the decision but I can't change it. I'm not comfortable being spoken to like this so I'd like to go and to get changed." Again, use non-threatening, open hand gestures while saying this.
In his position he should be aware of how to treat young people and act accordingly, but he obviously doesn't do this. Perhaps his son was the lad who was injured, but that doesn't excuse his behaviour.
If the League has team sheets then the manager's name should be on this, so you probably already have his name. You will need this for the report you submit. Hopefully he isn't the only representative from the team, because you need to inform someone that you are reporting the club for his behaviour. This person can confirm his identity. Ideally you don't want to be asking him for his name while he's shouting at you, because this can inflame the situation. If you can't get it then put this fact on the report, stating what you believe his name to be, together with the fact that you didn't inform anyone from the club that a report was going in, because you didn't feel comfortable talking to the person you are reporting since you didn't want to make things worse.
You also need to put the details on the match report form. State that you were abused by the away manager after the game and that a report has been submitted to the CFA.

 

[Louis Bird]

How old are you Louis, and how old was this team's manager?

The bottom line is, he has acted outside the boundaries of RESPECT protocol and the incident should have been reported to your county FA via a misconduct report. This is what should always happen - irrespective of however it did or didn't make you feel.
I suspect it made you feel quite uncomfortable or even humiliated in order for you to want to ask the question on here in the first place?

Don't allow ANYBODY to walk away from treating you in this way without consequences again mate. You might not be able to stop it happening at the time, but you can certainly make sure that offenders are dealt with appropriately afterwards and so prevent the behaviour continuing.

I was 20 years old on the day the game was played. I've only been officiating for around 2.5yrs and I've informed the person who appoints the referees for my leage and they haven't told me to report it to my CFA. I feel I've done the right thing here.

@Louis Bird - Hope you are Ok after this happened. This is one of the major problems for young referees quitting early in their careers.

Practical issues:
1. If you are receiving dissent (and not abuse) from the manager on the touchline, treat as you would a player. Speak with him first and if it continues, dismiss him. If he refuses to go, you abandon the match and announce why. The other team officials will then get rid of him for the fear of the FA & league fines + other punishments.
2. It is is abuse, then dismiss immediately. No being nice. Walk over, state that attitude is not acceptable and tell him to leave the side of the pitch. More accurately, tell him to go and stand in the car park!! Report the club to the FA and is you know his name, report the name as well. You don't need to ask his name when you dismiss him.
3. If they approach you after the game, simple keep quiet. Thank him for his comments and announce that you will be reporting him for his comments to the CFA.

Speak with other referees in your area, sometime one of them will come to one of your game. they can provide advice there and then, and if the manager is too mouthy - they will stand next to him and note everything. If the manager says too much, they may even report the person to the CFA.

Thanks, this is really useful to know and I will definitely keep it in mind for my future games if I ever get the same problem. I'm just a bit rusty on these things because I've only been officiating for just over 2 seasons, so I'm still very new to the whole process. Every game is a steep learning curve for me still.

Hi Louis, Welcome to the forum. I hope you're ok after this treatment by someone who should really know better.
It sounds like the manager was upset because his team were losing and the fact that this happened in the last minutes meant he could focus his anger on you. If you have a manager shouting in this way in future then the first thing to do is to keep calm. If it's one person then try to move towards other people, such as the Home manager. That way you've got witnesses to what's said and people who may help calm him down. However, since there are children around this can be awkward because you don't want to involve children in an unsavoury incident like this. This should be his concern but obviously isn't.
Try to speak to him calmly, telling him that you didn't feel it was a red card. I wouldn't try to justify this, because that's giving him another reason to have a go. Try not to enter into a conversation with him. Adopting non-aggressive mannerisms, such as holding your hands forwards palms down while you talk, can help calm the situation down. Try not to stand directly facing him, but stand at a slight angle to him so that he does not see you as openly challenging him. As a younger person you can use a slightly submissive posture as a way to defuse the situation.
Try to find a way to walk away without making the situation worse, such as saying something like "I'm sorry you disagree with the decision but I can't change it. I'm not comfortable being spoken to like this so I'd like to go and to get changed." Again, use non-threatening, open hand gestures while saying this.
In his position he should be aware of how to treat young people and act accordingly, but he obviously doesn't do this. Perhaps his son was the lad who was injured, but that doesn't excuse his behaviour.
If the League has team sheets then the manager's name should be on this, so you probably already have his name. You will need this for the report you submit. Hopefully he isn't the only representative from the team, because you need to inform someone that you are reporting the club for his behaviour. This person can confirm his identity. Ideally you don't want to be asking him for his name while he's shouting at you, because this can inflame the situation. If you can't get it then put this fact on the report, stating what you believe his name to be, together with the fact that you didn't inform anyone from the club that a report was going in, because you didn't feel comfortable talking to the person you are reporting since you didn't want to make things worse.
You also need to put the details on the match report form. State that you were abused by the away manager after the game and that a report has been submitted to the CFA.

Thanks for your reply. Where can I submit my report? I'm part of the London FA. My league doesn't have match reports, so if there is a problem then you just need to inform the person who appoints the referees. I've let him know so I think it's been taken care off.

 

[SM]

@Louis Bird - as per forum rules can I ask that you don't double (or triple!) post. Please use the multi quote option (+quote on right hand side/bottom of posts).

Thanks mate

 

[Louis Bird]

@Louis Bird - as per forum rules can I ask that you don't double (or triple!) post. Please use the multi quote option (+quote on right hand side/bottom of posts).

Thanks mate

From now on I will start doing this. I'm new to the forum and didn't know of the rules. Thanks for informing.

 

[Padfoot]

Whether it was deliberate or not is largely irrelevant.

What is important is whether it was dangerous or reckless?

If it endangered the safety of the opponent then it's a red card.

Unfortunately you haven't given us enough information about the challenge to make that determination......

 

[Markt]

I was 20 years old on the day the game was played. I've only been officiating for around 2.5yrs and I've informed the person who appoints the referees for my leage and they haven't told me to report it to my CFA. I feel I've done the right thing here.


Thanks, this is really useful to know and I will definitely keep it in mind for my future games if I ever get the same problem. I'm just a bit rusty on these things because I've only been officiating for just over 2 seasons, so I'm still very new to the whole process. Every game is a steep learning curve for me still.


Thanks for your reply. Where can I submit my report? I'm part of the London FA. My league doesn't have match reports, so if there is a problem then you just need to inform the person who appoints the referees. I've let him know so I think it's been taken care off.

I'd make sure that you send an email to whoever appoints referees to the league rather than doing it by phone. This makes it more official and means it's more likely to be dealt with properly. This should be similar to the report you sent to the London FA ,although it doesn't need to be in as much detail. The League will wait to see what the CFA does before they take action against the club. That's really all you need to do if the league doesn't use match report cards.

 

[Louis Bird]

Nobody's safety was in risk as far as I could tell. I did send the report to the person who appoints the referees via an email so he has it as an email record.

 

[Padfoot]

Nobody's safety was in risk as far as I could tell. I did send the report to the person who appoints the referees via an email so he has it as an email record.

So how did he use his elbow in the challenge?

 

[Louis Bird]

The ball was in the air and he moved his hands out of the way so that he could chest the ball down and take control. By accident he elbowed the defender. Hope this helps somewhat. I was just more asking about how to deal with the managers when the get angry and start directing their anger towards you as a referee

 

[Padfoot]

The ball was in the air and he moved his hands out of the way so that he could chest the ball down and take control. By accident he elbowed the defender. Hope this helps somewhat. I was just more asking about how to deal with the managers when the get angry and start directing their anger towards you as a referee

Part of that process is to review what sparked their anger in the first place.

That means you need to consider whether your decision was the correct one or not.....if a player has jumped to challenge for a ball, and moved their arms so that their elbow hits an opponent....it's a very fine line between nothing, yellow and red.

Things to consider are....did he have a sly glance to see where his opponent was? Was the hand open or closed when he moved his arms? Starting position in relation to each other?

Players and coaches don't get angry over nothing, it's normally something that we have, or haven't, done. Others have adequately covered how to deal with it at the time...but it's always worth reviewing what caused the incident just so that if there's anything we can do better or differently we take it forward into our next games.

 

[Kes]

Players and coaches don't get angry over nothing, it's normally something that we have, or haven't, done. .

Very surprised to hear you of all people say something like that.
Perhaps you might want to consider inserting the words "they think" into your sentence above.

 

[DB]

Crikey @Padfoot , I'll second what @Kes said on his first line... Where is the normal padfoot and what have you done with him? A very good reply there and one that will make Louis think a little bit.

 

[Louis Bird]

Crikey @Padfoot , I'll second what @Kes said on his first line... Where is the normal padfoot and what have you done with him? A very good reply there and one that will make Louis think a little bit.

This has all been very helpful for me. I just wasn't 100% sure on the correct thing to do. I'm sure now I will be able to deal with the situation a lot better and more comfortably.

 

[SM]

Players and coaches don't get angry over nothing, it's normally something that we have, or haven't, done.

Partially agree. That is certainly true for a good proportion, but for others they get angry over anything and everything when things aren't going their way. So while I agree with your recommendation to reflect on events and be mindful of what you have potentially done to contribute to events (reflection is a part of learning after all), sometimes there is nothing but pure bad behaviour at the root of the issue. These will be the guys who are no strangers to a disciplinary hearing

 

[Kes]

Partially agree. That is certainly true for a good proportion, but for others they get angry over anything and everything when things aren't going their way.

I had a coach who was very angry at me a couple of months ago. He was angry with me because I had allowed one of the opposition players to take a throw in and at least half of both his feet were sticking over the line and onto the pitch - not behind the line like they're meant to be.

 

[Louis Bird]

I had a coach who was very angry at me a couple of months ago. He was angry with me because I had allowed one of the opposition players to take a throw in and at least half of both his feet were sticking over the line and onto the pitch - not behind the line like they're meant to be.

These days managers seem to get mad/annoyed about anything wrong a referee does. It seems to the managers that the referee should get 100% of their decisions right, but let's face it we are all human and bound to make mistakes. Mistakes are how we learn and improve as referees.

 

[SM]

I had a coach who was very angry at me a couple of months ago. He was angry with me because I had allowed one of the opposition players to take a throw in and at least half of both his feet were sticking over the line and onto the pitch - not behind the line like they're meant to be.

The third reason managers get angry - pure ignorance!