Source?
Man Utd v Aston Villa (FA Cup)
- Thread starter ladbroke8745
- Start date
the only issue with this if if oliver had reviewed it pitchside and gone nah it's ok, no offside, had there been a handball or offside offence that followed they'd have had to go back to VAR and recheck which would have been an even bigger farce!
agreed, this was good. let the ref do the same to the crowd and TV audience so we all know as well.
VAR wouldnt get anywhere near as much negative publicity if Joe public knew what was happening and why
Re the latter paragraph, I nearly posted that last night, but if Oliver had done the OFR and decided it wasn't an error (eg Carvani couldn't have got near the ball) then they'd still have had to check the later event.
I think Ramsey was there to try and impede an (any) opponent but, compared to other VAR non-interventions for C&O, it's a stretch that this was judged C&O, with having to satisfy the "obvious" and "clearly" bit of interfering - though it is bizarre that those qualifications disappear in the expanded bullet points where merely being IOP and just standing still can be an offence.
And that was the decision - Ramsey didn't do enough for it to be a foul (unless of course not giving a DFK was a C&O mistake).
Anubis
RefChat Addict
not seen it, so bigger picture. Are there many ( other) times the ref has went to the monitor to review offside?
Even bigger picture, should it not be the actual AR who goes to look? its his specialist subject. Seen on these pages plenty times, oh, leave offside to the ars, ref does not get involved unless its diabolical..
this does not sound diabolical. So suddenly a guy who has never judged offside in the prem league ( story he ran his wives line a few years back), is now the offside master, of course I realise as things stand the ref goes to the screen but was there anything to legally prevent him taking the ar, Either of them?
Even bigger picture, should it not be the actual AR who goes to look? its his specialist subject. Seen on these pages plenty times, oh, leave offside to the ars, ref does not get involved unless its diabolical..
this does not sound diabolical. So suddenly a guy who has never judged offside in the prem league ( story he ran his wives line a few years back), is now the offside master, of course I realise as things stand the ref goes to the screen but was there anything to legally prevent him taking the ar, Either of them?
i dont think there's been any overturns in the prem this year...yet
i disagree that it should be the AR though rather than the ref. ultimately it's on the refs head, not the ARs and this wasnt a was he on / off debate, it was a subjective call about whether he was interfering with play which i'd suggest the ref would be more than capable of answering
Anubis
RefChat Addict
what about if they both go look?
why would you not enlist the help of the offside expert?
clearly hypothetical if the eye in sky expert cant give you a definate, its clutching at staws ( guess) to throw it back to the onfield referee
disclaiimer, not seen it, purely thinking out of box
halter42
Member
It's funny that you mention the AR looking at the screen (for offside). It actually happened before the winter break in Germany (1. Bundesliga). The referee asked one of his assistants to also have a look with him: https://www.n-tv.de/sport/fussball/...-kniffliger-Abseitsregel-article22963003.html
dont think it needs another set of eyes on the monitor and one less on the pitch
Anubis
RefChat Addict
oh?
there was me thinking i had invented a new sensation!
makes perfect sense, why would you not!
Not a wild suggestion, but, even in non VAR world the referee makes final decision.
The assistant is indicating a possible (99% these are certain) offside offence. It's the referee who stops play and makes the final decision about whether it has been committed.
It's like when each have 50% of info, 1 knows they were offside the other knows if they were interfering or not, the ref makes the final decision. I see no difference here with the decision making process, it is and always has been still the Rs call, VAR World or not.
You could go. One. Step further and say why bother looking At the screen, there is a SG1 AR in the booth as well..
It's also fairly common for the referee to have to get involved in offside to judge if a player plays the ball or if it's a defender playing/tackling the ball back rather than an attacker passing forward. This call is much more in that ballpark than the kind of call an AR typically makes, so I'm not convinced the AR has to get involved with this specific offside call.
I'm not sold on this decision being correct. For an offside offence, the AV player would have to "make an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball". Given the timing of this clash, we're speculating as to what Cavani would have gone on to do and if he would have otherwise played the ball - that's not reaching the bar of "clearly impacting" for me, and the goal should have stood (or at least, gone on to a more detailed analysis of if there was a flick that played Ings offside for the finish!)
Anubis
RefChat Addict
Am aware the ref makes the call . Thats a given.
my point is, as you touch on, if firstly onfield dont know, then the var cant tell,( is the vaar not taking part in the var review anyway?) then if you handing it back to where it came from in the first place ( by now its farce), then you might as well go full hog and involve the ar. We want of course the right call, how we get there, who we involve, how many we involve, should be imaterial.
its been posted on these pages over and over again, leave offside to the ar ( bar the clearest error of all time)
this does not sound like the clearest error of all time... thats off at a tangent and am not wording it very well . .
Poor advice and procedures where you are don't change how things are done here, regardless of how many times you post them. Instruction I've always been given as an AR is "offside is yours unless I can see that you're wrong in law".
Nothing about clear errors - if the referee sees something the AR hasn't or can't have seen, they should be overruling, or at least letting the move play out and then discussing it after. This is the territory we're in here, discussing a possible error that has more to do with the referees judgement of who was likely to play the ball than it does with the AR's job of monitoring the offside line.
Which is kind of where I was going. With my post
This is the bit where the R says what have you seen. And the AR says this is what I saw except the VAR has the power to replay to the ref what he saw woht video allowing the R to make the call he would make using the words of the AR in a non VAR world.
There's juts no need to haul the AR over here, but this is an expected R view the monitor to decide.
Anubis
RefChat Addict
i did say bigger picture, not purely relating the thoughts to this incident in this game, allbeit its this incident which sparked the notion,
if taking the ar to view ( another offside in another game) can assist in the correct call, am for that,
that said if its going that far, after the original var vaar can have lines, replays, multiple angles, and still cant say yes or no we might as well ask the guy interviewed in the grassroots vid.
Again back to this call ( which i have not seen) Without var ( so either a semi pro gams, or indeed simply, no var) do we have a goal or not?
UEFA RAP videos from 2018 or 2019. They had a number of clips focusing on this and the instruction of verbally warning players in an offside position before a free kick started to become a thing
Agreed, though, when I've seen refereeing experts on shows, they either play it too safe, or the pundits go 'thanks for that' and then peddle their nonsense out anyway.