RefSix

Man City vs Chelsea

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
Level 6 Referee
McManaman is absolutely clueless, but why is it that he could identify the HB/DOGSO within seconds but it took VAR ages to reach the same conclusion?
In all likelihood, Atwell had seen it, but with any doubt he left to to VAR to sort out. An unforeseen consequence of VAR for me, has been the detriment of on-field officiating
 

Tealeaf

Lighting the darkest hour
Staff member
Level 5 Referee
McManaman is absolutely clueless, but why is it that he could identify the HB/DOGSO within seconds but it took VAR ages to reach the same conclusion?
In all likelihood, Atwell had seen it, but with any doubt he left to to VAR to sort out. An unforeseen consequence of VAR for me, has been the detriment of on-field officiating
Making absolutely sure? Given all the criticism perhaps taking no chances that there was a foul by an attacker first and that it was not deflected off the thigh?

I missed it real time and seeing Attwell signal advantage combined with a yell in the penalty area presumed there was a foul.

Then seeing the replay I thought it deflected off his body onto his arm at first. Slow-no reverse angle it was clear it wasn’t.

But imagine the furore if penalty and DOG was the decision, and there was a foul beforehand ignored?
 

Jorik0907

Active Member
Why City lost the title encapsulated in one game. Poor defending and missed chances, and relentless consistency by Liverpool. If the (original) thread title is allowed, I don't see a need to avoid the LiVARpool angle. It was an obvious penalty but I wonder how many earlier in the season thought this next one "came so close and fast that he couldn't get his hand out of the way".



View attachment 4375

"The Professional Game Match Officials (PGMO) confirmed later in the half that Alexander-Arnold’s arm was not in an unnatural position and there was a lack of reaction time, so it was not adjudged to be a handball."
My apologies for the thread title by the way, I've seen a lot of match threads indicated in some way or the other. Was not meant in a derogatory way at all, I'm a massive Guardiola fan and have no dogs in this fight one way or the other. I never intend to post anything other than a fair debate about referee calls and I feel my posts thus far are consistently objective and fair. If the mods feel they'd have to change the title, they'd be well within their rights.

Edit: I see the title has already been adjusted.
 

onthebrink

Active Member
I think we have to be careful about criticising VAR for taking 'too' long. I'm not sure we can sit here one week and say 'Why didn't they look at that?' and then sit here a week later saying 'Why did they look at that for so long?' There were a few different aspects in terms of did it hit the hand, was it a handling offence, and was it then a red card? Plus all the usual attacking phases of play and was there any other offside, ball out of play, foul, attacking handball etc. As has been said many times, it would be better if we could hear a feed from the VAR so we could more clearly hear 'it's a penalty, checking red card. It's a red card. I just need to check the ball was still in play before you award it'.

In terms of the Rudiger challenge, I'm not saying it should have been a penalty but I just found it odd that the message on the screen was 'Checking for Serious Foul Play' when 'Checking for possible penalty' seemed a better starting point. I don't think a red card was ever a likely outcome but there's quite a big gap between a possible foul and a possible red card.
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
Level 6 Referee
Take it from another feline, Fernandinho pawed at the ball like it was a stricken mouse. I'm not buying the notion that the delay was justified for such an obvious decision
That said, having put the LOTG on furlough, I best start reading through the 20/21 changes because I'm cloudy on what's what atm
 

Sheffields Finest

Maybe I'm foolish, maybe I'm blind!
Level 7 Referee
I called it Live and was flabbergasted when they just played on, it was about an obvious of a call that we get,,,,,The City players face was a picture, he 100% knew what he'd done.... I get the reasons why he did it, taking one for the team and all that but it was quite funny too that he thought he'd got away with it!!! Same old City..... ;)
 

onthebrink

Active Member
Take it from another feline, Fernandinho pawed at the ball like it was a stricken mouse. I'm not buying the notion that the delay was justified for such an obvious decision
That said, having put the LOTG on furlough, I best start reading through the 20/21 changes because I'm cloudy on what's what atm
Of course we also don't know exactly how quickly the technical operation works and how quickly they see the replays. I think it's fair to assume there must have been some reason for the delay. Craig Pawson wasn't just sitting there twiddling his thumbs for an extra 30 seconds or whatever for the sake of it.
 

Grayson

RefChat Addict
. Craig Pawson wasn't just sitting there twiddling his thumbs for an extra 30 seconds or whatever for the sake of it.
Probably just leaned over to crack open another Tyskie and check his Animal Crossing turnip prices and missed it. I assume that’s how the VAR mancave works anyway.
 

RefIADad

Active Member
Level 7 Referee
As a football fan, I'm not interested. I want to get on with the game
Your point is exactly why VAR should be used only for clear and obvious errors. If it's not something you can identify relatively quickly, it isn't clear and obvious.

In this case, the handling should have been spotted pretty quickly. Then you do a quick check to see if anyone from Chelsea was obviously offside in the buildup, and you move on. Having to do all of the playing with the magic lines to identify a potential offside is what drives so many of us mad.
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
Level 6 Referee
Your point is exactly why VAR should be used only for clear and obvious errors. If it's not something you can identify relatively quickly, it isn't clear and obvious.

In this case, the handling should have been spotted pretty quickly. Then you do a quick check to see if anyone from Chelsea was obviously offside in the buildup, and you move on. Having to do all of the playing with the magic lines to identify a potential offside is what drives so many of us mad.
Agree
I'm not taking issue with any member on this, I'm just venting my usual dismay at the game
I could make a very long list of what VAR takes from the game, offset by a very short list of benefits. Anyway, my views are very polarised on this as everyone ought to know, so I'll pipe down for a change! :yawn:
 

onthebrink

Active Member
As a football fan, I'm not interested. I want to get on with the game
You might not be interested but it's clearly going to affect the length of the process. If it's taking the technicians a long time to find the best angle and provide that to the VAR then the official can't make the decision any quicker. It seems something people should be interested in because it's one of the many elements where questions could be asked about possible improvements which could improve the efficiency of the decision making.
 

GraemeS

RefChat Addict
Level 5 Referee
That decision effectively decided the league title. If there's been any one decision over the course of this season that's worth taking some time over to make sure you get it right, I think that's the one!
 

Sheffields Finest

Maybe I'm foolish, maybe I'm blind!
Level 7 Referee
Yeh, I agree, it’s a good job the same Ethical thoughts weren’t used at Villa Park though.... But hey, anything that helps LiVARpoil must be worth doing eh!
 

GraemeS

RefChat Addict
Level 5 Referee
Yeh, I agree, it’s a good job the same Ethical thoughts weren’t used at Villa Park though.... But hey, anything that helps LiVARpoil must be worth doing eh!
Not sure I quite follow...the easy thing to do was for VAR to look at the first replay and award the penalty/red card. To be honest, that should have been the easy thing for the referee on the field to do as well.

Any delay will have been VAR looking for reasons NOT to give that obvious decision (offside, foul in the build up etc.) The only possible reason for the long delay that seems to have annoyed a certain faction on here is because they were trying to find a reason to not help Chelsea and therefore by extension, Liverpool.
 

bloovee

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
Not even I would think it "decided the title". One might still wonder how things might have panned out if City had been 1-0 up at Anfield after 6 minutes rather than 1-0 down. Ball to hand my arse!


We wouldn't have been trying to set fire to famous buildings in the city!
 
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