A&H

Laws of the Game hard Copy - Update

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PinnerPaul

RefChat Addict
You may remember that Middlesex FA had promised all referees a copy of LOTG 16/17.

Also, some on here had asked where they could buy one.

Just received this from Middlesex FA, which explains why it is so hard to come by


We placed an order with The FA as soon as the book was published – around July this year.

To date, we have not received any. Other counties have had the same problem.

In fairness, it is not The FA’s fault it is the fault of the International Football Association Board, which is now a separate company and, it seems, not a very far-sighted one as they did not seem to realise that the major changes would trigger a demand or copies of the book.

We set a deadline of November 1 and that has not been met. Consequently, we have cancelled the order for this year.


Anyone got any idea where/if a hard copy is available to purchase? Thanks
 
A&H International
@PinnerPaul I am not sure you will get one. I emailed IFAB they told me to email the FA, i emailed the FA they told me to email my County, i emailed the county they told me to contact IFAB. In the end i gave up...not good really.
 
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Cheshire Ref said:
@PinnerPaul I am not sure you will get one. I emailed IFAB they told me to email the FA, i emailed the FA they told me to email my County, i emailed the county they told me to contact IFAB. In the end i gave up...not good really.
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I agree, and yes I think you're correct - largest re write of the laws in years and hard copies are like gold dust!

In fairness Middx have promised us a free 17/18 hard copy instead, assuming they can their hands on some then of course!
 
There won't be hard copies of anything, laws of the game, CFA handbooks, league handbooks, etc, going forward. We live in a digital world, and there is no way companies are going to spend the huge amounts of money printing and posting these things.
 
RustyRef said:
There won't be hard copies of anything, laws of the game, CFA handbooks, league handbooks, etc, going forward. We live in a digital world, and there is no way companies are going to spend the huge amounts of money printing and posting these things.
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While I get your point, I'm not sure it totally applies to grassroots football. If you're a referee who wants a copy of the LOTG with them at all times (which I think is a justifiable stance), are you really going to bring a £200 tablet to the side of the pitch and leave it in your bag for 90 minutes in unknown areas and subject to unknown weather?

I've typically kept a copy of the LOTG in my bag and while it's got a little wet and dog-eared over time, that's not a massive deal to me when it's only a £10 book that I have to replace every few years. I'm not doing that with my tablet - and my phone typically stays in my car unless I know there will be lockable changing rooms. So because there are no books, I frequently don't have access to the LOTG. That's not a massive problem for me, but I know there are referees out there that wouldn't feel as comfortable with that situation.
 
What I have done in the past is just to print the pdf file in double-sided, booklet mode. This reduces the number of sheets of paper required by a factor of 4 and still gives you a perfectly readable, usable copy. If your printer doesn't support those options you could find a print/copy shop that would print it for you. At a Staples store for instance, it looks like you could get this done for about £5-10, depending on exactly how many of the pages you wanted to print (I wouldn't bother with the summary of changes and detailed explanations, for a start).
 
Why should a referee have to print his own copy out?

Should be provided free of charge to every referee, every year.

We all pay £20+ to "register" each season.....what do we actually get for that? We pay for our own kit (unless you are one of the chosen few on CORE in which case everyone else subsidises your kit each season), we pay for our own supplies (match cards, whistles etc), the clubs pay our fees, the leagues facilitate our fixtures........

So what do we actually get for our money?
 
GraemeS said:
While I get your point, I'm not sure it totally applies to grassroots football. If you're a referee who wants a copy of the LOTG with them at all times (which I think is a justifiable stance), are you really going to bring a £200 tablet to the side of the pitch and leave it in your bag for 90 minutes in unknown areas and subject to unknown weather?

I've typically kept a copy of the LOTG in my bag and while it's got a little wet and dog-eared over time, that's not a massive deal to me when it's only a £10 book that I have to replace every few years. I'm not doing that with my tablet - and my phone typically stays in my car unless I know there will be lockable changing rooms. So because there are no books, I frequently don't have access to the LOTG. That's not a massive problem for me, but I know there are referees out there that wouldn't feel as comfortable with that situation.
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1) why would you want a copy of the LoTG at all times?
2) why do you pay £10 for the LoTG?
3) why do you only replace it every few years when there are changes every year?
 
Brian Hamilton said:
1) why would you want a copy of the LoTG at all times?
2) why do you pay £10 for the LoTG?
3) why do you only replace it every few years when there are changes every year?
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I can't help feeling that some of those questions contradict others, but OK:
1) As I say, I don't any more, but it was comforting knowing it was there when I started out. And that's just my opinion, I've had at least one more senior referee pull his copy out when I'm running a line and we were unsure if we were right in law or not when something unusual happened.
I still try to bring the right competition handbook to every match, because I don't know those rules as well as I know the LOTG - and to be totally frank, I probably don't necessarily know every unusual situation off the top of my head, so it can be nice to have that to check.
2) I don't remember exactly how much it is - but it's a sum of money somewhere around that to be sent a hard copy.
3) I read the changes online every year, attend courses if they're offered and change my refereeing appropriately, but that's again not the same as feeling the need to buy a new hard copy for what are normally relatively minor adjustments (this years sweeping changes being the exception of course).
 
Is there not an argument to say that you should know everything in the LOTG off by heart, as you can't exactly pull it out on the pitch if you are unsure of something? A shout of "hang on lads while I go and have a red up on that" is not going to leave you in a good position ...:)

Like it or not printed material is dying, and as a result the cost of postage is increasing massively. Posting something of that size is over £2 these days. Take a county with hundreds or even thousands of referees, and the cost of printing, you are talking thousands of pounds that they just don't have given the funding cuts.
 
Padfoot said:
Why should a referee have to print his own copy out?

Should be provided free of charge to every referee, every year.

We all pay £20+ to "register" each season.....what do we actually get for that? We pay for our own kit (unless you are one of the chosen few on CORE in which case everyone else subsidises your kit each season), we pay for our own supplies (match cards, whistles etc), the clubs pay our fees, the leagues facilitate our fixtures........

So what do we actually get for our money?
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This is a good point. I think that refs are entitled to something from their CFA. Seems a bit of a one-way relationship.
 
Kent Ref said:
This is a good point. I think that refs are entitled to something from their CFA. Seems a bit of a one-way relationship.
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Hmmm, yeah, those County FAs what have they ever done for us?

How about the public liability insurance they provide? Oh aye that.

What about County Cup appointments? Oh yeah, public liability and County Cups, yeah but what else have they ever given us?

There's the training and support from the RDO? And the regular training events provided by him/her and team? Right well, apart from the public liability, the County Cup, the RDO, the training, what else have they ever done for us?

All the people who support our development, like tutors, observers and coaches and those that administer the fines and suspensions in the governance department, you know the ones generated by our reports?

Right... apart from the public liability, the County Cup, the RDO, the training, the development, the administration of the fines and the rest, what have the County FA ever done for us?

Yeah, County FAs, they give us nothing for our £25 a season...

Apologies to John Cleese, Michael Palin, Graham Chapman, Eric Idle, Terry Jones, Terry Gilliam and of course, Carole Cleveland
 
RustyRef said:
Is there not an argument to say that you should know everything in the LOTG off by heart, as you can't exactly pull it out on the pitch if you are unsure of something? A shout of "hang on lads while I go and have a red up on that" is not going to leave you in a good position ...:)

Like it or not printed material is dying, and as a result the cost of postage is increasing massively. Posting something of that size is over £2 these days. Take a county with hundreds or even thousands of referees, and the cost of printing, you are talking thousands of pounds that they just don't have given the funding cuts.
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I'm not for a second saying you would stop and pull it out on the pitch, that's absurd. And you only need to look at the existence of this forum to know that not every referee knows everything.
 
What a list.

I assume part of the registration fee we pays for the insurance? Are we being given this for free?

County cups generate money for the CFA (cup entry fees) and we ref them for the county. How does this aid the ref? Generally i am out of pocket from these games as they pay less and are further away than "normal" games.

The CFA process our reports in order to generate money (fines) for the CFA. How does this aid the ref? Should we collect the money for them and transfer it into their account?

I agree that RDO's can provide guidance and do some good work but some CFA's now do not have a RDO after cutbacks. Is this good for those referees?

If asking for a free hardcopy of the LOTG once a season is too much to ask then we're in trouble!
 
Kent Ref said:
What a list.

I assume part of the registration fee we pays for the insurance? Are we being given this for free?

County cups generate money for the CFA (cup entry fees) and we ref them for the county. How does this aid the ref? Generally i am out of pocket from these games as they pay less and are further away than "normal" games.

The CFA process our reports in order to generate money (fines) for the CFA. How does this aid the ref? Should we collect the money for them and transfer it into their account?

I agree that RDO's can provide guidance and do some good work but some CFA's now do not have a RDO after cutbacks. Is this good for those referees?

If asking for a free hardcopy of the LOTG once a season is too much to ask then we're in trouble!
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You missed the point. You asked if you could not get anything back and I provided you with some things you get for your £20-25. Reg fee contributes towards income which is used by CFA to pay the premiums for the PLI. So you don't see the further away games as a development opportunity, just an imposition and is it really all about the money? If so, how much did you take in match fees last season? How much did you spent on getting to the games, kit, etc.? Fines and suspensions for players are designed to encourage them to modify their behaviour meaning you get an easier life when you referee. Do you have an RDO at Kent? I believe you do. I also believe you have a number of high ranking RA-FA Youth Council members and experienced observers, tutors, etc.

It's comments like yours about not getting something for free that make me question my involvement in football in all aspects. Like a manager who asks me to turn a blind eye to him playing a cup tied player or a secretary asking not to be fined because he hasn't sent in a match report for any of his cup games this season. I despair.

Oh yeah, it took me 12 seconds to find this

http://www.kentfa.com/referees
 
The point i was trying to make is that referees, in my opinion, are in a relationship with the CFA which mainly benefits the CFA (probably 80/20).

Over the many, many years i have been reffing the referee has become less important and less respected by all other parties in football. Whether that be teams, managers, parents or CFA's. Maybe that's just society.

In Kent this year we had to pay £6.50 for our copy of the LOTG and a registration fee. Would have been nice to get something free for a change.
 
A copy of the Laws to which we are expected to officiate to, which have had the biggest revision for a number of years for this season, is not asking the earth?

If you asked for a free kit, free boots, etc etc then I would agree that people need to give their head a wobble......but a free copy of the LOTG.....surely it's not beyond the capacity of the CFA's to provide this?

I would be interested to know the amount of revenue raised each year from disciplinary cases and referee's registration fees, compared to the cost of providing an RDO etc?

Also, a small but salient point, the majority of CFA provided training for established referees (can't count new ones because they pay for their course), currently focuses on CORE groups which only cater to a small minority of referees within a CFA. Whilst I support the idea of CORE groups, you can see why those outside of the 18-25 yr old target audience might feel they are subsidising something that has little or relevance to them?
 
Padfoot said:
Also, a small but salient point, the majority of CFA provided training for established referees (can't count new ones because they pay for their course), currently focuses on CORE groups which only cater to a small minority of referees within a CFA. Whilst I support the idea of CORE groups, you can see why those outside of the 18-25 yr old target audience might feel they are subsidising something that has little or relevance to them?
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I know it will be different from County to county but Kent are offering the core development sessions to all referees.

Kent have split these into 3 levels:
Tier 1 - "Foundation" / Tier 1 - "Academy"
"Academy" is obviously for those in the academy, where as foundation is for those who wish to improve as a referee but are content to operate at the grass roots level

Tier 2 - "Development"
This is for those on the 7-6 and 6-5 promotion scheme

Tier 3 - "Advanced"
For those at level 4 and those on the 5-4 promotion scheme

I've attended a couple of the foundation and development sessions and have found them really helpful.

To cut a long story short, I don't think a free hard copy of the LOTG for every referee that registers is a bad idea. However, I appreciate that CFAs are not necessarily flush with cash so I don't mind parting with a few quid for one.
 
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