Law Changes from July 2024

[socal lurker]

While I tend to agree that players are silly about shin guards, at the same time, how many actual injuries are there that would have been meaningfully lessened had the player been wearing better shinguards. I don’t think it is really a lot. (Though I still wear heavy duty, full size ones when I play—I think in practical terms they do more to reduce cuts and minor pain/bruising than serious injury.)

 

[one]

While I tend to agree that players are silly about shin guards, at the same time, how many actual injuries are there that would have been meaningfully lessened had the player been wearing better shinguards. I don’t think it is really a lot. (Though I still wear heavy duty, full size ones when I play—I think in practical terms they do more to reduce cuts and minor pain/bruising than serious injury.)

I would change the question.

How many incidents without an injury are there that a lesser shinguard would have meant an injury?

In my games, I'd say every season I get a couple to half dozen sounds of loud thud when a kick connects to a shin pad. I'd say a micro shinpad would have meant injury in at least half of those. Maybe not all serious though but some.

 

[Gabriel]

I would change the question.

How many incidents without an injury are there that a lesser shinguard would have meant an injury?

In my games, I'd say every season I get a couple to half dozen sounds of loud thud when a kick connects to a shin pad. I'd say a micro shinpad would have meant injury in at least half of those. Maybe not all serious though but some.

This is a massive consideration. I had one match where a player had full size shin pads on at the start of the match and then changed them to micros at half time, which I was fine with as it isn’t my concern once I’ve told them it’s their risk. Same player caused the game to be abandoned when we had to call an ambulance for what I suspected to be a very bad leg break… I don’t like micros whatsoever.

 

[Will_A]

The handball/penalty one is interresting.

Does this mean "denial of a goal" by handball is only a yellow card now if it's considered not deliberate (thinking something akin to Harry Kewell's red card against Ghana at the 2010 World Cup) - or will that be another separate consideration.

Obviously, will depend on how exactly they word things....

If non-deliberate handballs are to be treated as any other foul, this would that denial of a goal/goal scoring opportunity is still a red card.
DOGSO doesn't have to be a deliberate action. I'd say 90% of fouls are accidental either the player trying to win the ball.

 

[JamesL]

If non-deliberate handballs are to be treated as any other foul, this would that denial of a goal/goal scoring opportunity is still a red card.
DOGSO doesn't have to be a deliberate action. I'd say 90% of fouls are accidental either the player trying to win the ball.

The law is being changed so that non-deliberate handball that is DOGSO and a penalty is awarded will be yellow card, in a similar way that attempting to play/challenging for the the ball is

 

[socal lurker]

The law is being changed so that non-deliberate handball that is DOGSO and a penalty is awarded will be yellow card, in a similar way that attempting to play/challenging for the the ball is

No room for controversy in that distinction . . .

 

[WiisardNic]

If non-deliberate handballs are to be treated as any other foul, this would that denial of a goal/goal scoring opportunity is still a red card.
DOGSO doesn't have to be a deliberate action. I'd say 90% of fouls are accidental either the player trying to win the ball.

The law is being changed so that non-deliberate handball that is DOGSO and a penalty is awarded will be yellow card, in a similar way that attempting to play/challenging for the the ball is

No room for controversy in that distinction . . .

on DOGSO, that makes sense. But we don't have the full wording yet (do we? or am I just blind?) and I'm just commenting on this line:

"Handball offences that are not deliberate, and for which penalties are awarded, are to be treated in the same way as other fouls."

Noting that penalties for handball are awarded in "DOGSO" or "Denial of Goal", is Denial of Goal going to be considered a tier up from DOGSO, so still a red card regardless of being deliberate, or will it be lumped in the same category as DOGSO and downgraded to yellow?

 

[JamesL]

on DOGSO, that makes sense. But we don't have the full wording yet (do we? or am I just blind?) and I'm just commenting on this line:

"Handball offences that are not deliberate, and for which penalties are awarded, are to be treated in the same way as other fouls."

Noting that penalties for handball are awarded in "DOGSO" or "Denial of Goal", is Denial of Goal going to be considered a tier up from DOGSO, so still a red card regardless of being deliberate, or will it be lumped in the same category as DOGSO and downgraded to yellow?

 

[WiisardNic]

View attachment 7279

Thanks for that!

Basically confirms that if the referee determines the denial of goal by handball is not deliberate, then it's just a yellow card (alongside the penalty).

So again, leading to my examples from 2010 history - Suarez' red card against Ghana would still be a red card, and there's argument that Kewell's red card against Ghana would be a yellow card under today's law (again, assuming the referee determines it as non-deliberate)

 

[bloovee]

So if a player has their arm out in a position justifiable by their movement, then the ball is hit toward the arm, and they try to move the arm to avoid it but it then hits the arm, is that deliberate or non-deliberate? Because that distinction didn't previously matter.

And how can a substitute or substituted player commit a non-deliberate handball?

 

[socal lurker]

So if a player has their arm out in a position justifiable by their movement, then the ball is hit toward the arm, and they try to move the arm to avoid it but it then hits the arm, is that deliberate or non-deliberate? Because that distinction didn't previously matter.

But that isn’t a HB offense at all. It’s neither deliberate not in an unnatural position.

The caution becomes HB offenses where the HB offense was not deliberate, but only unnatural position (which is stil quirky as the origin of unnatural position was as a kind of deliberate action.)

A substitute who enters the field unnoticed could commit a HB offense by unnatural position just as much as a player could, so no reason to specially carve that out.

 

[bloovee]

But that isn’t a HB offense at all. It’s neither deliberate not in an unnatural position.

The caution becomes HB offenses where the HB offense was not deliberate, but only unnatural position (which is stil quirky as the origin of unnatural position was as a kind of deliberate action.)

A substitute who enters the field unnoticed could commit a HB offense by unnatural position just as much as a player could, so no reason to specially carve that out.

But the hand moves to avoid the ball (or at least to get the arm closer to the body) so am attempt to avoid the ball looks like "hand to ball" and so looks deliberate.

If a substitute comes on and uses a hand to deny a goal I'm calling that deliberate. It's pointless talking about arms in an unnatural position for a player whose body is in an unnatural position (i.e. on the FoP). It would be two yellows anyway: entering the FoP without permission and DOGSO...

 

[socal lurker]

But the hand moves to avoid the ball (or at least to get the arm closer to the body) so am attempt to avoid the ball looks like "hand to ball" and so looks deliberate.

All that matters is the opinion or the referee. If the referee believes the arm was not on an unnatural position and that there was no deliberate handling, then it simply isn’t a HB offense. If the R concludes it was deliberate, then it’s a HB offense, and as deliberate, a send off.

But the line between deliberate and unnaturally bigger is far from a bright line. Consider the first play in this inside video review from MLS PRO—is that HB deliberate or is it merely unnaturally bigger? (For those interested in VAR, this week’s has some interesting conversation in the boioth and with the R and a scenario with the R properly sticking with a PK after the o field review: