The Ref Stop

law 8 toss of coin

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wenger

New Member
Level 6 Referee
under new law 8 if A choose k.off do B get to choose ends? (otherwise A in effect choose both)
 
The Ref Stop
the last 2 posts state opponents take k.o. should it not say choses whether to take k.o.
 
I'm really at a loss as to why people are finding this hard. This is literally just going back to the way we always did the coin toss up until 1997. I can't recall hearing that anyone ever had a problem figuring it out before, so I can't see what the issue with it is now.
 
If the coin toss winner chooses which end to attack, the coin toss loser does not have a choice and must kick off first half.

However, if the coin toss loser is adamant he wants to kick off second half and the coin toss winner agrees, you could say to the coin toss winner "you could choose to kick off first half and [the coin toss loser] can choose to attack the end you didn't choose."
 
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Peter Grove said:
I'm really at a loss as to why people are finding this hard. This is literally just going back to the way we always did the coin toss up until 1997. I can't recall hearing that anyone ever had a problem figuring it out before, so I can't see what the issue with it is now.
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The confusion I think comes in what the winning captain is and isn't allowed to pick, and the implications that then puts on the losing captain.

There are 4 options that must be decided by the coin toss: 2 ends and 2 halves to kick off in. The winner can pick either end to play the first half from, or can pick to kick off the first half. They can't explicitly pick to kick off in the second half, that only occurs as a result of picking an end. If they do choose to kick off in the first half the opponent then gets a choice of ends, wheras if they pick an end, the opponent gets no decision to make and must kick off in the first half.

Therefore, I forsee the following problems, all based around the idea that kicking off in the second half might be seen as advantageous by someone:
1. Winning captain says "I'd like to kick off in the second half please". You're then forced to make him pick an end instead, and the angry losing captain feels like his opponent has been given both choices
2. Winning captain picks an end and losing captain wants the 2nd half kick off - again, you must now explain to him that he's obliged to kick off and doesn't get a choice, where the previous time he lost the toss he may then have been asked to make a decision.

It's not the biggest issue in the world, but I do feel like it would have been simpler and felt fairer if both choices were up for grabs, and the toss winner simply gets to select which choice he wants to make.
 
GraemeS said:
The confusion I think comes in what the winning captain is and isn't allowed to pick, and the implications that then puts on the losing captain.

There are 4 options that must be decided by the coin toss: 2 ends and 2 halves to kick off in. The winner can pick either end to play the first half from, or can pick to kick off the first half. They can't explicitly pick to kick off in the second half, that only occurs as a result of picking an end. If they do choose to kick off in the first half the opponent then gets a choice of ends, wheras if they pick an end, the opponent gets no decision to make and must kick off in the first half.

Therefore, I forsee the following problems, all based around the idea that kicking off in the second half might be seen as advantageous by someone:
1. Winning captain says "I'd like to kick off in the second half please". You're then forced to make him pick an end instead, and the angry losing captain feels like his opponent has been given both choices
2. Winning captain picks an end and losing captain wants the 2nd half kick off - again, you must now explain to him that he's obliged to kick off and doesn't get a choice, where the previous time he lost the toss he may then have been asked to make a decision.

It's not the biggest issue in the world, but I do feel like it would have been simpler and felt fairer if both choices were up for grabs, and the toss winner simply gets to select which choice he wants to make.
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Crikey, how can something so simple be made out to be so complicated. My head hurts!!! In over 400 games i have not once had a captain say id like to kick off the second half. If he/she does win the toss then they would simply stay as they are therefore handing first half kick off to the other team and guess what? They will kick off the second half...voila!!!! You win the toss you pick, you lose you dont. Again in over 400 games i have never had anyone complain about a coin toss. The captains dont really care, unless the sun is out.
 
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