Kompany - Leicester v Man City
- Thread starter Mooseybaby
- Start date
Is it just me that feels this is just the latest in a long series of blunders by the PL refs? All seems to come down to speed and positioning, with the exception of Jon Moss (who seems to have improved considerably this year), none of them seem to have the speed to cope with the game for the 90 minutes which is leading to decisions like this.
santa sangria
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one
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It does sound pedantry but I always use visual clues measuring 10 yards for free kicks so this discussion helps.Pedants' corner but the stripes in the box are 6 yards, outside they ar typically wider and I think that is the case here
The first strip is definitely 6 yards give or take a few inches. Edge of the PA line to the top of the D is always 4 yards. From top of the D to the outside of the edge of the stripe looks about half that so that makes it 4+2=6 yards wide.
The second stripe outside seems a bit wider. It could be the case or just the camera angle making it look wider.
Just you. They are the top of what we do - we all make mistakes, theirs are few and far between and on TV and slow mo on MOTD.
Justylove
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Yep I agree. Their decisions get analysed from multiple angles, zoomed in and in super slow motion.
Watch an incident once at full speed, make your decision then analyse the slow mo and see if you still agree.
Overall decision making accuracy is high and better than every single player's in the PL.
Agree, and anyone saying they aren't fit enough should try doing the PL fitness test. You don't pass that if you aren't extremely fit.
Are they as fit and as fast as the young PL players? No, of course they aren't, although the likes of Taylor, Oliver, Attwell and Kavanagh probably aren't far off. For the older guys who are approaching or even in their 50s, there is no way on earth they can catch up with PL footballers. As I know from experience, no matter how fit you stay and how hard you work on fitness, your pace will decline over time. I'm fitter now than I was in my 20s, my 10k time is better now than it was then, but I'm certainly a lot slower when it comes to a sprint.
Ciley Myrus
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There is a something to put into the equation though that slows down a player and gives you a better chance as referee, the ball
Player without ball v ref.....player might win
Player with ball v ref, the ball should even things out a bit
And when you cant, or don't need to get there in a straight sprint, you turn to experience and reading the game, and you take an angle
Lee Mason last night, he could have been 10 yards further up with play and still would not have called the pen before half time, what he needed (apart from AR help) was an angle. What he expected to see down the barrel of a gun from where he was, I don't know
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The frame that "one" has posted up there, where even is the referee? Its what, 2 mins in, he should least be in the pic somewhere? Its central, there was clearly going to be a KMI to be made, I would expect him to be in the dark green area where Vardy is laying, was Scott not there because of fitness? 2 mins into his (first?!) game with the league favs? If your not going to be up with play in the first 2 mins then should you really be out there? How can he credibly make a call when he is nowhere near the scene of the crime?
Player without ball v ref.....player might win
Player with ball v ref, the ball should even things out a bit
And when you cant, or don't need to get there in a straight sprint, you turn to experience and reading the game, and you take an angle
Lee Mason last night, he could have been 10 yards further up with play and still would not have called the pen before half time, what he needed (apart from AR help) was an angle. What he expected to see down the barrel of a gun from where he was, I don't know
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The frame that "one" has posted up there, where even is the referee? Its what, 2 mins in, he should least be in the pic somewhere? Its central, there was clearly going to be a KMI to be made, I would expect him to be in the dark green area where Vardy is laying, was Scott not there because of fitness? 2 mins into his (first?!) game with the league favs? If your not going to be up with play in the first 2 mins then should you really be out there? How can he credibly make a call when he is nowhere near the scene of the crime?
Yampy
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Vardy never touched the ball. He might gain control but he never had control. I might argue a red for violent conduct is more accurate.
one
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That's a bit harsh on the referee there. It is not physically possible to be close to play at every phase of play. He was in good positions in the previous phases of play and this incident happened after a 20 yard through ball. He was jogging up before it and sprinting up as soon as the ball was put through. I don't think any other referee would have been close to this incident.
I always priorities a good angled view over closeness to play if I can't get both.
one
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Not a chance.
Peter Grove
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The player doesn't have to have control - and if he doesn't, the referee just has to assess the likelihood of him gaining control. There's no doubt in my mind that Vardy was going to control that ball, it was laid perfectly into his path at an ideal speed for him - he's not even going to have to break stride.
You can't possibly make that kind of sweeping generalisation - every field can be marked differently but from what I can tell, the 'stripes' on this pitch seem to be all more or less the same, if you look at the ones either side of the half way line, for instance.
In any event, whatever the exact width of the stripes, Vardy was going to be onto the ball in less than a second and into an almost perfect scoring position just inside the area in about 2 seconds, he was pretty much centrally placed and clean through on goal with only the keeper to beat. I can only agree with what @RustyRef said earlier, in that for me it 'ticks all the boxes' for a DOGSO offence.
Ciley Myrus
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No angle, too far away from play, from where he is, he is running risk of not being able to tell if its even a foul, nevermind if its DOGO, far too central, we are 2 mins in remember , not 2 mins to go and ref could be excused for being exhausted, he is even running risk of the nearest 2 City players to him (sorry not don't know who they are) about to block his view as the clip rolls on
Harsh? Maybe. But this is not Sunday league refereeing. These, as you know, are the best of the best, the fittest, the ones employed to train, employed and coached from the very top, not to mention the salary, before match fee, I think in return its reasonable to expect a referee to be in a credible position to make a HUGE call after 2 mins.
Had Vardy not been tripped, surely the next part in play will be Vardy running 1 on 1 with City gk, and we are then looking at pk/dive scenario, would the referee be in a credible place to call that?
Yampy
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Okay, putting my jokey, flippant comment about violent conduct to one side, I do feel as though the fact the Vardy has not controlled the ball is highly relevant. IMO he is not in control of the ball but LOTG suggests we should consider whether he might gain control. I don't believe this is definitive. Firstly, the through ball was played with the instep of a right foot and the path of the ball is right-to-left. Hence, it is not straight but in a direction that brings it into the path of Stones. The pictures above all appear to indicate that Stones is ahead of Vardy prior to the tackle by Kompany. And he's already on the move. From the above, I wouldn't say Vardy has a headstart as @RustyRef states although he is undoubtedly going to struggle in a foot race with the Leicester striker.
I have great respect for your views and input Peter, but to argue that a player is in control of a ball which he never touched and just let run past him is not correct IMO. Agreed, there's a likelihood he might but not obviously greater than that of the defender.
It is my contention that there is enough doubt in two of the DOGDO criteria for it to fail to be DOGSO i.e. Vardy isn't in control and might not ever be and the location of Stones. So, if Scott had these doubts, too all he can do is caution Kompany.
Now, did he challenge for the ball with his one footed lunge from behind? Did it endanger the safety of the opponent?
I have great respect for your views and input Peter, but to argue that a player is in control of a ball which he never touched and just let run past him is not correct IMO. Agreed, there's a likelihood he might but not obviously greater than that of the defender.
It is my contention that there is enough doubt in two of the DOGDO criteria for it to fail to be DOGSO i.e. Vardy isn't in control and might not ever be and the location of Stones. So, if Scott had these doubts, too all he can do is caution Kompany.
Now, did he challenge for the ball with his one footed lunge from behind? Did it endanger the safety of the opponent?
In fairness to him, play was down the other end so he was coming back from the other diagonal. If you look at the video below he was in pretty much a perfect position as the ball was played. I've also put a still below.
https://www.footbie.com/video/kompa...-card-leicester-vs-manchester-city-18-11-2017
santa sangria
RefChat Addict
I've noticed this in a lot in the prem though - that the three stripes in the area are narrower than the other stripes on the field, that's why I generalised. It's not really important other than to highlight that the initial challenge is maybe 16/17 yards outside the box and not 10/11... that doesn't really help though as there is no distance specified in the laws to consider under "distance between the offence and goal".
Sorry - didn't think it worth joining in. At the time I thought that could be red - but then immediately thought of how hard it is to get a DOGSO red card in the EPL these days (Mignolet yesterday?)
See what I mean?
That was Atkinson not giving Mignolet a red card.
Conspiracy, what conspiracy? If you mean things like Aguero getting a ban for swinging an elbow (brutality) and a player of the club where FA/UEFA/FIFA executive David Gill is a director is only "petulant" for aiming a kick at a player's groin...
Ciley Myrus
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My comments on Atkinson were based on had he been referee at the Kompany incident. Not related at all to last nights game where the incidents were not even close to being the same, one is striker though on goal being tripped by defender from the back, this one, is a defender (gk) coming at him head on with a Stoke defender standing a shoe lace away from him, thus, I think its reasonable to make allowance for the other defender, in the Kompany one, only in my no valued opinion, its a red 100%, last night, am not 100% so I can accept a YC. Again as ever though if in your game you give a red there, you can be justified in doing so. Indeed I will admit at first time viewing, full speed, I would have justified a red for serious foul play to Mignolet, such was the speed, zero effort to play ball. DOGSO was secondary (again only to me) such was the proximity of the other defender.
Edit I just watched it again, and, am going red for SFP !!!!!