Keepers before kick off

[one]

It’s not a step in any direction, and why does it have to be? Would it have helped this referee in this match? 100% yes. It wouldn’t have affected his marks as it’s not part of the LOTG but it’s helps a referee and in this scenario, would have saved him an earful after that goal and subsequently, half time

If you really think that then your game your authority do what you think is best. As i said, it is your job to pick the advice that you think will help you. My advice, visually scan to see if everything/everyone is A-OK before kicking off, don't signal or ask individual players for readiness, game starts on your authority, not theirs. Same for the OP.

But I would go as much as saying even if the keeper had his gloves on in the OP, he would have found some other excuse to blame the referee for the goal, 19 second after he heard the referee blow the kick off whistle.

 

[QuaverRef]

Ok grass roots, why shout. "Ready keeper." And not, "ready left back?"

Because it’s standard practice, a recognised shout, something I was asked to do on my course and something every assessor has acknowledged after a game. Why do you have to be pedantic about it? It would have helped this referee in this scenario in what is a 2 second task. We give the cutting the grass signal without it being a requirement, we give players time to do their shoelaces, we allow tape of different colours but this, apparently, is a step too far.

 

[Ciley Myrus]

Because it’s standard practice, a recognised shout, something I was asked to do on my course and something every assessor has acknowledged after a game. Why do you have to be pedantic about it? It would have helped this referee in this scenario in what is a 2 second task. We give the cutting the grass signal without it being a requirement, we give players time to do their shoelaces, we allow tape of different colours but this, apparently, is a step too far.

Must be a regional thing, nothing close to standard here and I have never heard it or given it as advise
You wont be doing it as you progress, so, why not get into best practise asap

 

[ladbroke8745]

For me, youth football I always do a visual check of all players and a verbal one to assistants and keepers.
This, to me, signals to all players we are about to kick off. A big shout to keepers shows I am ready, and if they're ready, the whistle is being blown. No surprises.
Moving into adult fixtures, it is a visual check only and that includes assistants who barely move anyway on a Sunday morning.
Then on to games with neutrals, I've always said to them eye contact is key. They'll know when I'm ready if their eyes are on me. I'll wait for them if they haven't seen me because they may be focused elsewhere, such as benches or a player doing laces or something. We both look in their halves and if he/she is happy, and I'm happy, I turn to other assistant and repeat. No calling keepers. Visual checks done, off we go.

As has been mentioned, it may seem courtesy to shout, but it's not a requirement. A visual check is sufficient enough in my eyes. As long as you have counted the players, you'll know each individual players situation (tying laces, putting on gloves etc). Youth football I recognise players have less attention span sometimes and look on the pitch next door (if there is one) or at a mate on the sideline etc.

 

[QuaverRef]

Must be a regional thing, nothing close to standard here and I have never heard it or given it as advise
You wont be doing it as you progress, so, why not get into best practise asap

Because it’s an easy thing to drop from pre game when required. What happened above is 100% avoidable. Not by doing something in the LOTG but doing something very quick to help others. You may have the odd issue like above if you don’t do it, but I’ve never heard of any problems as a result of doing it.

 

[Ciley Myrus]

Because it’s an easy thing to drop from pre game when required. What happened above is 100% avoidable. Not by doing something in the LOTG but doing something very quick to help others. You may have the odd issue like above if you don’t do it, but I’ve never heard of any problems as a result of doing it.

There factually is no problem in doing it. Its just unnecessary
As ever if it works for somebody, great.
For others, it remains as surpless to requirement, so wont be happening,

 

[one]

Counting players with the index finger outwardly pointed at them is another one of my dislikes. It just looks unprofessional and shows lack of experience (rookie stuff for lack of better words). Mistakenly, newer referees think when players see this they think the ref knows his stuff. When I used to play and saw a referee counting players with index finger pointing, my though was he is new to this. My advice is visually count them as a formation when doing your last scan. Like, 4, 4, 2 or 4, 3, 3. If you have NARs, you can ask each to do their side (visually).

 

[Ciley Myrus]

Counting players with the index finger outwardly pointed at them is another one of my dislikes. It just looks unprofessional and shows lack of experience (rookie stuff for lack of better words). Mistakenly, newer referees think when players see this they think the ref knows his stuff. When I used to play and saw a referee counting players with index finger pointing, my though was he is new to this. My advice is visually count them as a formation when doing your last scan. Like, 4, 4, 2 or 4, 3, 3. If you have NARs, you can ask each to do their side (visually).

I have actually seen a referee do the pointy finger count.....
Then proceed to start with a team with 10 !!
To say he look ridiculous does not even come close.....

 

[RobOda]

I feel personally attacked. >_>

I do the finger pointy count. I'll keep doing it though.

I don't do the keeper ready check though, never saw a reason to. I've found it's half and half with other referees whether they do so or not. Haven't had any observer remarks on it, but maybe that will come up in the future.

 

[GraemeS]

No. Simply no. Not that it should be the standard but when was the last time you saw a top flight referee signalling to the keepers to see if they are ready.

For match control and make it easier for myself (not the players), before KO signal I look at may ARs as well as scan all player, including keepers, to see if any reason I shouldn't signal KO. There is no reason to ask individual players if they are ready. KO times are pre-determined and they should be ready for it in their position.

This seems a very odd statement, you let the players wear a watch? If not, how on earth do you expect them to know what the time is?

 

[one]

This seems a very odd statement, you let the players wear a watch? If not, how on earth do you expect them to know what the time is?

I am not sure if you are serious or there is sarcasm ther but just in case.

The managers (should) wear a watch. They go for warm up. 5 minutes before kick off time they generally go to the change rooms and do whatever they do and they are to be on the field 3 minutes before kick off (or whatever minutes competition rules require them to), guided by the manager. In addition they always get a "kick off in 3 minutes" call from me, on the pitch or otherwise. Coin toss with 1 minute to go. Off course, thing don't always go to the second but to say that players don't know when they should be ready to go on the field is not what I excepted from an experienced referee.

 

[Ciley Myrus]

I am not sure if you are serious or there is sarcasm ther but just in case.

The managers (should) wear a watch. They go for warm up. 5 minutes before kick off time they generally go to the change rooms and do whatever they do and they are to be on the field 3 minutes before kick off (or whatever minutes competition rules require them to), guided by the manager. In addition they always get a "kick off in 3 minutes" call from me, on the pitch or otherwise. Coin toss with 1 minute to go. Off course, thing don't always go to the second but to say that players don't know when they should be ready to go on the field is not what I excepted from an experienced referee.

If a team dont know when to be ready for kick off then we are aswell going home
We need to wipe their butt too???

 

[QuaverRef]

I am not sure if you are serious or there is sarcasm ther but just in case.

The managers (should) wear a watch. They go for warm up. 5 minutes before kick off time they generally go to the change rooms and do whatever they do and they are to be on the field 3 minutes before kick off (or whatever minutes competition rules require them to), guided by the manager. In addition they always get a "kick off in 3 minutes" call from me, on the pitch or otherwise. Coin toss with 1 minute to go. Off course, thing don't always go to the second but to say that players don't know when they should be ready to go on the field is not what I excepted from an experienced referee.

This is where I’m bringing in the difference between bottom of the barrel grassroots football for the ‘keeper shout’. These won’t go to the changing rooms, have a 5 minute warning, be led out and have hand shakes etc. They will be standing around their half of the pitch, taking shots at the keeper, putting the nets up and just playing the ball around right up until KO. I agree if they’ve been led out, fine the hand shakes etc there is absolutely no need for the keeper shout

 

[one]

This is where I’m bringing in the difference between bottom of the barrel grassroots football for the ‘keeper shout’. These won’t go to the changing rooms, have a 5 minute warning, be led out and have hand shakes etc. They will be standing around their half of the pitch, taking shots at the keeper, putting the nets up and just playing the ball around right up until KO. I agree if they’ve been led out, fine the hand shakes etc there is absolutely no need for the keeper shout

Come on now. I used that example for a different purpose (knowing when to kick off). But the visual scan logic applies to that too. I have had plenty of those games. Just because its grassroots it doesn't mean you don't do pitch inspections or teams sheets, coin toss etc. All those are opportunities for getting them to be aware of time and kick off. No change rooms or just kicking around on the pitch for warm up, they are still aware of time and they should be by whomever organises the team. When getting the teamsheet (if early enough) you tell them we kick off on time (or running 5 late or whatever). 3 minutes before kick off you are on the pitch "Guys, we kick off in a couple of minutes". Once you call the captains in for coin toss (sometimes a couple of peeps on the whistle) "let's go guys" they all see and hear that. They should get in position and be ready to go. If they are not you can see and you wait a little. It is absolutely unnecessary to shout "keeper, are you ready".
Anyway, if you are not happy with the advice, do whatever makes you happy . As I said, it's your choice which advice to follow.

 

[Ciley Myrus]

The underlying principle being, by asking, you are in reality asking the goalies permission to start the game!!

Not often I am in total agreement with One but he stating its absolutely unnecessary is bullseye.

Can you class it as courtesy, manners, proactive, yes, you can spin in into something positive and if you feel it helps your game, fine

Hypothetical but what if you do your shout, blow, then see the right back is down tying his laces!! Did you ask him if he was ready!?

 

[QuaverRef]

Hypothetical but what if you do your shout, blow, then see the right back is down tying his laces!! Did you ask him if he was ready!?

Again, you’re just being pedantic. The difference being the goalkeeper is wearing gloves so would have to take them off to do a shoelace. The second being, if the right back isn’t ready, that doesn’t impact a striker, who with his first touch at KO, can put it straight into the net if the keeper is on his knees doing a shoelace

 

[QuaverRef]

I thought the idea of this forum was to offer advice out to less experienced referees, but it turns out you can be criticised for something as trivial as shouting to the keeper twice

 

[Ciley Myrus]

I thought the idea of this forum was to offer advice out to less experienced referees, but it turns out you can be criticised for something as trivial as shouting to the keeper twice

Folk can only take whatever advice they wish out of what is given.
not every bit of advice given will suit everybody.

if the gk is down tying his laces, or needs, help as One says, fine, we wait.
But if we do our last glance checks and all is good, then, off we go.
It is clearly different where other folk are, but certainly where I am, and it appears, where others are, this practise of shouting to the gk is not taught, recommended or encouraged.
I can only put the point of view as appropriate to where I am. As can anybody.
What folk do with that point of view, is up to them

 

[RefJef]

Routine, routine, routine - it helps (me at least).

We’ve done the coin toss etc. everyone’s in position (me in left midfield of team taking kick), I’ve mentally counted the teams.

My routine kicks in: calmly, to kicker: “we’ll start on my whistle, ok?” Then turn to keeper of side taking kick: “OK keeper?”, when he aacknowledges , turn to nearest AR: “OK Lino?”, when he acknowledges, call tomother keeper “ OK keeper?”, when he acknowledges I call to far AR “OK Lino?”, when he acknowledges start watch 1, start watch 2, blow whistle, game begins.

The routine settles me, (hopefully) has also established my calm authority on the pitch, the game gets going without me having to think about it - control the controllables. The job is hard enough as it is, so whatever your routine is, develop it and practice it so it becomes automatic, and you can focus on the difficult stuff.

 

[Ben448844]

I worked with a guy who would ask the captains the name of their keepers at the coin toss and then call out to them to ask if they were ready before kick-off using their names. It felt very creepy when they were females. Luckily he has retired now.

I'm in the visual check camp. On the odd occasion that I'm uncertain I'll make strong eye contact and if necessary point to them for confirmation. Seems to work. The calling out seems childish to me. Perhaps I'm just burnt from working with the creepy guy.

Off topic but this reminded me of a ref we used to have who used to shout "play fair or pay your fare" then blow his whistle to start. It wasn't funny the first time and he's still doing it years later.