Keeper ruling

[edcoach]

A Thiery Henri goal when playing for Arsenal was disallowed when he headed the ball away from the keeper as it was released in the air to punt the ball down field. The ruling given was the ball was technically in the hands of the keeper. If that is correct then why are keepers not red carded when they release the ball at the edge of the 18 yard box then step over the line to punt the ball? You can't have the rule both ways.

 

[Tealeaf]

On what grounds are you showing the keeper a red card ?

No obvious goalscoring opportunity has been denied here, which is the only handball offence that a goalkeeper could be sent off for.

 

[one]

The ruling given was the ball was technically in the hands of the keeper

He was in control of the ball. Which is different to the ball was in his hands.

Keeper handling outside the area being red card is a myth regardless.

Edit: @edcoach I see this is your first post. Welcome to the forum. Given you forum name, is it safe to assume you are not a referee?

 

[Big Cat]

A Thiery Henri goal when playing for Arsenal was disallowed when he headed the ball away from the keeper as it was released in the air to punt the ball down field. The ruling given was the ball was technically in the hands of the keeper. If that is correct then why are keepers not red carded when they release the ball at the edge of the 18 yard box then step over the line to punt the ball? You can't have the rule both ways.

An Arsenal fan with a very very very very very very very old grievance? At least @bloovee only bleats about EVERY decision made against his side in recent times! Must be a conspiracy

 

[JamesL]

A Thiery Henri goal when playing for Arsenal was disallowed when he headed the ball away from the keeper as it was released in the air to punt the ball down field. The ruling given was the ball was technically in the hands of the keeper. If that is correct then why are keepers not red carded when they release the ball at the edge of the 18 yard box then step over the line to punt the ball? You can't have the rule both ways.

There is actually so much wrong with this I don't even know where to start...

What would the red card be for?

How can you give handball if the ball is not being touched with the hand?

What rule is both ways?

 

[RustyRef]

To quote law to show why a keeper cannot be challenged in that way ...

A goalkeeper is considered to be in control of the ball with their hand(s)/arm(s) when:

•  the ball is between their hands/arms or between their hand(s)/arm(s) and any surface (e.g. ground, own body)
• holding the ball in their outstretched open hand(s)
• bouncing it on the ground or throwing it in the air

A goalkeeper cannot be challenged by an opponent when in control of the ball with their hand(s)/arm(s)

So it couldn't be any more clear that what Henry did is an offence. 99% of times the keeper releases the ball from their hand before they leave the penalty area so there is no offence. But even if they didn't it could only be a red card if deemed to be denying an obvious goal scoring opportunity, and that almost certainly wouldn't have happened. It would just be a direct free kick for a handling offence with no other sanction.

 

[RefereeX]

Insert what everyone else said here... (except @edcoach)

 

[NOVARef]

There is actually so much wrong with this I don't even know where to start...

What would the red card be for?

How can you give handball if the ball is not being touched with the hand?

What rule is both ways?

I'm not sure what he's thinking about the red card but...as someone has quoted, the goalkeeper is in control of the ball WITH THEIR HANDS when throwing it in the air. @edcoach asks...if the goalkeeper tosses the ball out of the 18 yard box, then why isn't that considered controlling the ball WITH THEIR HANDS outside the 18 yard box, which would be a handball? And that is the "two ways" he is talking about. Goal keeper is considered in control of the ball with his hands when challenged inside the 18 yard box like in the Henri example but not if he tosses the ball outside the 18 yard box.

 

[JamesL]

I'm not sure what he's thinking about the red card but...as someone has quoted, the goalkeeper is in control of the ball WITH THEIR HANDS when throwing it in the air. @edcoach asks...if the goalkeeper tosses the ball out of the 18 yard box, then why isn't that considered controlling the ball WITH THEIR HANDS outside the 18 yard box, which would be a handball? And that is the "two ways" he is talking about. Goal keeper is considered in control of the ball with his hands when challenged inside the 18 yard box like in the Henri example but not if he tosses the ball outside the 18 yard box.

Being in control with the hands or arms is different to touching the ball with the hands or arms.

Just as a player (or GK) can have control of the ball with their feet it not always in contact with the ball - this needs to be defined as hands or arms to be clear about when/when not the GK can be challenged.

So to answer your point, you can be in control of the ball with your hands/arms without committing a handball offence as they are totally separate laws/rules

 

[edcoach]

He was in control of the ball. Which is different to the ball was in his hands.

Keeper handling outside the area being red card is a myth regardless.

Edit: @edcoach I see this is your first post. Welcome to the forum. Given you forum name, is it safe to assume you are not a referee?

No not a ref. Retired ice hockey coach and instructor for the National Coaching Certification Programme in Canada. Played football in Canada about League One level

 

[edcoach]

Sorry but a keeper can be red carded for a deliberate hand ball outside the area

 

[JamesL]

Sorry but a keeper can be red carded for a deliberate hand ball outside the area

Yes. But only if it denies and obvious goal scoring opportunity which in the circumstances you are querying practically cannot happen.

 

[one]

Sorry but a keeper can be red carded for a deliberate hand ball outside the area

Of course they can, but just like any other player. There is a myth out there that any time a keeper handles the ball outside the area, it's a red card which is not true.

 

[RefereeX]

And IFAB have stated that any goalkeeper who carries the ball outside of his area cannot receive a sanction for SPA or DOGSO.

 

[socal lurker]

Sorry but a keeper can be red carded for a deliberate hand ball outside the area

This is one of the great MYTHS of the game, Many peopleincorrectly be,ieve that a GK HB outside the PA is always a send off. That isn’t remotely close to being true. As others have said, it only is true if the HB stops an obvious goal scoring opportunity. (The myth probably arises because the most common time a GK HB is seen in real life is when the GK comes out of the PA and stops an obvious goal scoring opportunity.)

 

[Russell Jones]

Of course they can, but just like any other player. There is a myth out there that any time a keeper handles the ball outside the area, it's a red card which is not true.

Just like any other player … except for the reality that ‘removing’ the offending player typically offers a much greater chance of an OGSO because there is no GK in position