A&H

Just need another opinion on something

george.g

george.g

Active Member
Level 5 Referee
Hi all,

Had a game today that was ultimately abandoned, as I had threats against my safety ect., and after a dismissal for S6, wasn't comfortable continuing.

I'm 6"3 at 16, so taller than most people on the pitch, but still felt undoubtedly threatened about the words and actions of a player.

Before the S6, I also had a SinBin after a clear act of dissent, which takes takes me to 8 SinBins in 18 Middles, most of which are U18 and Open Age.

I've been selected for a County Cup Final, so clearly not doing too badly, and I feel as though I can justify all of my SinBins, but I'm concerned by a subconscious narrative that my number of SinBins indicates I have poor match control (although I was praised for this on a recent Matchday Coaching Report).

I guess I just would appreciate a second opinion on what I've spoken about, as I can't seem to set my head straight on it, and whilst I like to think I'm competent for my age and experience, I don't know if I've got something horribly wrong.

Thanks all :)
 
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At your level, 8 in 18 is not unusual - it means you are doing the job effectively.
Sorry about the abandonment today - make sure the league know as well as the County FA; keep a record of what happened, who said what, etc.
Keep up the good work👍
 
Big picture - you are obviously doing great - good luck!

With this match, try to think back to early in the match. Was there an incident when the dissent started? Was it one player? Or was it “low level dissent” with 3-4 players starting to get snide? Did you laugh something off - or ignore something? Anything you could have done different? Stepped approach earlier? Could you have made a show of warning someone earlier?

Sometimes we referee in hope that verbals will not escalate - maybe we ignore things - so, it’s up to you to find your way to let players know you’ve heard it, clue them in to your tolerance, shut them down when necessary.
 
Your youthful age may well compell players to think they can "bully" you and/or chip away at your confidence by moaning at and challenging your every decision.
Try not to let it phase you. If it feels like dissent to you then it is. Stick to your guns and deal with it as you see fit (in accordance with the LOTG). 😉😎👍
 
ChasObserverRefDeveloper said:
At your level, 8 in 18 is not unusual - it means you are doing the job effectively.
Sorry about the abandonment today - make sure the league know as well as the County FA; keep a record of what happened, who said what, etc.
Keep up the good work👍
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Already sent through a Misconduct Report to the CFA, so that’s all sorted, and as the incidents occured at stoppages in play, one of which being half time, I had the time to write down specific words and phrases used.

Generally quite happy with it, just needed some other opinions on whether I was blowing things out of proportion ect.

Thanks for all the feedback so far - appreciate it
 
santa sangria said:
With this match, try to think back to early in the match. Was there an incident when the dissent started? Was it one player? Or was it “low level dissent” with 3-4 players starting to get snide? Did you laugh something off - or ignore something? Anything you could have done different? Stepped approach earlier? Could you have made a show of warning someone earlier?
Click to expand...
Yeah, it was a close match, with probably one possible case of RP i could’ve cautioned, but decided to let play, as it was very borderline, and I felt like it could do more harm than good.

Had a SinBin in 45+2 for someone turning around and calling me a ‘soft c*nt’. I understand why people may come on here and tell me to red card that, but the way he said it, and the direction he was facing made much more sense to use the SinBin.

There was a lot of snappy responses, but my style is normally to talk the player and explain the decision. I had one public rebuke prior to this incident, so it did come as a shock.

There were certainly points I could’ve been tougher beforehand, so for me it’s a matter of reviewing those.
 
You only really need to worry about dissent cautions if they are regularly outnumbering cautions for other offences, as that might suggest there is an underlying problem with your game that is leading to the dissent.
 
RustyRef said:
You only really need to worry about dissent cautions if they are regularly outnumbering cautions for other offences, as that might suggest there is an underlying problem with your game that is leading to the dissent.
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Yes. I had 4 dissent cautions in one game yesterday ... Thankfully, there were 11 cautions in total so nothing to worry about 👀. 🤣🤣
 
george.g said:
Yeah, it was a close match, with probably one possible case of RP i could’ve cautioned, but decided to let play, as it was very borderline, and I felt like it could do more harm than good.

Had a SinBin in 45+2 for someone turning around and calling me a ‘soft c*nt’. I understand why people may come on here and tell me to red card that, but the way he said it, and the direction he was facing made much more sense to use the SinBin.

There was a lot of snappy responses, but my style is normally to talk the player and explain the decision. I had one public rebuke prior to this incident, so it did come as a shock.

There were certainly points I could’ve been tougher beforehand, so for me it’s a matter of reviewing those.
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How is your "warning" style? Think about the "show" - not just for the player, but the rest of the players, benches and audience. My honest opinion - it doesn't matter what you say - the player is not really going to listen and is certainly not hanging on your every word! - it is how you deliver the warning. Are you in control - is the player isolated - are they showing some respect by coming to meet you - body language good, upright, good arms, maybe a little signal so every knows what you are talking about - nice and crisp, short, in control...

That first warning really matters. Some people like to cut the grass. Some people make a real show of getting the player to "heel". Some like to make the first warning follow strong whistling... whatever you are comfortable with.
 
I had a first in my game yesterday. 2 sin bins in one game. I’ve never had more than one player in the sin bin at once.

51st min- away player 8 sin binned for dissent.
54th min- away player 14 sin binned for dissent.
55th min- away team manager booked for dissent.

And then they asked for my details at the end of the game as they are reporting me. I am not sure what for! Luckily, the home team assistant was a qualified referee who I have worked with a lot before and we have a game coming up together soon and the president of the home team (who was spectating) is also on the league committee and he wasn’t impressed with the away team. Thankfully I had those two there with me. The Home AR sprinted into me at the end of the game as he thought it was going to kick off!
 
@george.g, While 8 in 18 is not too disproportionate, high number of dissents can have many other factors involved beyond your control. For me @Kes hit the nail on the head, but also you could be refereeing in a comp that dissent is common place in general so you are not the only one. It could be other referees letting too much of it go and when it comes to you players think you'd do the same.
Stick to your guns, while with experience and age you would be able to be help players not get themselves into trouble more often (deliberate choice of words), it sounds like it's the players who should change their ways not you.
 
Dissent in my Sunday morning men’s is often more regular than Saturday afternoon football.

Had a rather unpleasant one yesterday. But you need the hideous ones to be able to enjoy the great ones.
 
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george.g said:
Had a SinBin in 45+2 for someone turning around and calling me a ‘soft c*nt’. I understand why people may come on here and tell me to red card that, but the way he said it, and the direction he was facing made much more sense to use the SinBin.
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I get the difficulty with whipping out red when to those far away on the bench it would look like a non-incident but, for me, that phrase must attract a sending off. It is beyond disrespectful and tends into abusive, no matter the manner in which it is said.

Loud blast on the whistle, call over the skipper, tell him 'this player just called me a soft c&nt - he is going. We will not be restarting until I am satisfied he has left the vicinity', and then flick the chump.

Others may not call over the captain, but this would alleviate some of the risk of the decision seeming capricious.
 
Redster said:
I get the difficulty with whipping out red when to those far away on the bench it would look like a non-incident but, for me, that phrase must attract a sending off. It is beyond disrespectful and tends into abusive, no matter the manner in which it is said.

Loud blast on the whistle, call over the skipper, tell him 'this player just called me a soft c&nt - he is going. We will not be restarting until I am satisfied he has left the vicinity', and then flick the chump.

Others may not call over the captain, but this would alleviate some of the risk of the decision seeming capricious.
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Yeah, valid point. In honesty, I think I didn't register he'd called me a c*nt until half time 2mins later.

If it had sunk in with me at the time, I would've walked him, but he said it in such a way, that I didn't register it to be abusive, and went SinBin, totally get where you're coming from.
 
one said:
@george.g, While 8 in 18 is not too disproportionate, high number of dissents can have many other factors involved beyond your control. For me @Kes hit the nail on the head, but also you could be refereeing in a comp that dissent is common place in general so you are not the only one. It could be other referees letting too much of it go and when it comes to you players think you'd do the same.
Stick to your guns, while with experience and age you would be able to be help players not get themselves into trouble more often (deliberate choice of words), it sounds like it's the players who should change their ways not you.
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My age will certainly play a part, but I like to think of myself as generally unphased. Two of my leagues high levels of dissent (one got pulled as one of the worst in the country I heard), so it's not unusual.

I usually SinBin for when people cross my line, which I have set out in my head pretty clrealry.

As you say, over time I'll be able to become more proactive rather than reactive.
 
george.g said:
Hi all,

Had a game today that was ultimately abandoned, as I had threats against my safety ect., and after a dismissal for S6, wasn't comfortable continuing.

I'm 6"3 at 16, so taller than most people on the pitch, but still felt undoubtedly threatened about the words and actions of a player.

Before the S6, I also had a SinBin after a clear act of dissent, which takes takes me to 8 SinBins in 18 Middles, most of which are U18 and Open Age.

I've been selected for a County Cup Final, so clearly not doing too badly, and I feel as though I can justify all of my SinBins, but I'm concerned by a subconscious narrative that my number of SinBins indicates I have poor match control (although I was praised for this on a recent Matchday Coaching Report).

I guess I just would appreciate a second opinion on what I've spoken about, as I can't seem to set my head straight on it, and whilst I like to think I'm competent for my age and experience, I don't know if I've got something horribly wrong.

Thanks all :)
Click to expand...
You’re doing a good job mate.
I’ve lost count the number of sinbins that I’ve given out. Every referee will have a different tolerance level. I tell the captains at the start of the game, I’ll give 1 warning then Sinbin, unless there’s something that warrants a red such as a homophobic slur or racism etc.

In my opinion, there’s no place in the game for abuse and dissent towards officials. And the FA are behind that as well and that’s why the SinBin was bought out.

If at any point you feel your safety is in danger, 100% abandon that game and you did the right thing by doing that! End of the day, we all want to go home happier.

I’m a fulltime firefighter as my main job and I say I probably have a higher risk of coming home hurt from refereeing a football game than running into a burning building.

It seems like you’re doing all the right things and being praised on your Match Day Report is really good! Keep it up mate!
 
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