RefSix

Jurgen vs Roy

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
Level 6 Referee
Not really. I would say the 20/21 laws make this even more handball. As per above, just removing the word usually, which means it's defo handball.
Arm makes body unnaturally bigger.
The point of contact is above And beyond shoulder level.
It is played from an opponent who is close.
I dont see a get out clause here.
Equally, the word 'usually' has been removed from the reasons for not giving a HB, so 'unexpected ball carries' equal weight, especially given the arm was barely over shoulder height. As long as EPL refs don't give these (and they don't, well not from very close range), I'll follow suit because I personally think no penalty is the right outcome
 

JamesL

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
Equally, the word 'usually' has been removed from the reasons for not giving a HB, so 'unexpected ball carries' equal weight, especially given the arm was barely over shoulder height. As long as EPL refs don't give these (and they don't, well not from very close range), I'll follow suit because I personally think no penalty is the right outcome
Before that bit it says, except for the above offences. So it doesn't carry equal weight. It meets all three of the is an offence criteria.
There isn't a bit about unexpected ball, it says hits the hand or arm from another player who is close, but that is only a Consideration where the is an offence criteria haven't been met.
 

JamesL

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
It was handball, an offence.

Is there any justification why VAR would ignore this?
Remember VAR is not Re refereeing the game. The question VAR asks is, is it a clear and obvious error?
Given the high bar that we have set in England for VAR intervention it doesn't surprise me this wasn't picked up.
There is obviously enough ambiguity, given we can't completely agree on what is and isn't handball.
Say Taylor says I saw it hit the arm, imo too close has he made a clear and obvious error. Some will say yes, but it's his decision at the end to the day. He can refuse the review, or the recommendation of VAR. He makes final decision.
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
Level 6 Referee
You're right, I missed a single but somewhat important word when I read the text!
I watched it in real-time, it didn't look as bad as the freeze-frame

'Unexpected ball' is just an Americanism, or a term that gets banded about for 'close'
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
Level 6 Referee
VAR is back anyway, forensically dissecting every goal looking intently to find technicalities on which to kill the game
Controversy and hype exacerbated and magnified in most games, with Match Officials endlessly in the news. Brilliant
 

Mintyref

RefChat Addict
Level 6 Referee
Who remembers when HB had to be deemed deliberate ITOOTR... who wrote all this extra crap? 💩
Me me me.....what a load of tosh all this tinkering is, all in the name 'what football expects'!

I'd enter an argument but the whole thread would disintegrate into the quarterly rehashing of old topics right until the mods stopped us from behaving like naughty children.....
 

Sheffields Finest

Maybe I'm foolish, maybe I'm blind!
Level 7 Referee
I bet 95%+ of the ball hitting your hand / opposite are not deliberate..... The ones where your hands are behind your back and tucked in, and they call it is just absolutely laughable.... !!!!
 
Last edited:

Ciley Myrus

RefChat Addict
I bet 95%+ of the ball hitting your hand / opposite are not deliberate..... The ones where your hands are behind your back and tucked in, and they call it is just absolutely laughable.... !!!!
I never played, but have been involved long enough to understand the mindset of players, the deliberate handball occasions are rare, and, obvious, i,e everybody, not just you, but, him his team, the other team, all know whats happened can only be handball

what we have today is a technical minefield and biology dissection lesson to fathom out in our heads before we can adjudge a handball offence.
 

socal lurker

RefChat Addict
Who remembers when HB had to be deemed deliberate ITOOTR... who wrote all this extra crap? 💩
While I'm with you in wanting to go back to just deliberate, the revisions wer emade in an effort to create more consistency across the globe. What Brits and North Americans thought deliberate meant and what South Americans thought it meant were completely different. While I don't like where we are, I understand the motivation. (I just wish we ended up closer to the Brit/North American view, as we were always right . . . )
 

Nij

Well-Known Member
But by the 2019-20 laws it’s a clear offence. How can it not be given at this level?
EPL is not football, it's football-based entertainment.

The players are there to act a part, as are the officials, and it's close enough to the real high-level thing that the skills are transferable, but the whole thing is about making money for the clubs and the organisers.

The sooner this is accepted, the sooner we get over the confusion of why "VAR is pointless"/"VAR is not consistent" or why "great referees make so many poor decisions"/"such a bad referee can still be working there".
 
Top