How to take feedback and apply it.

[MattTheRef]

Afternoon all.

I've recently qualified down in Hampshire and have been reffing since November. (passed the exam officially in February) I started with a local youth league U11-U16 and have been doing these alongside men's Saturday & Sunday football since the beginning of January.

So far I'v thoroughly enjoyed it, I rate myself highly and am planning on doing 7-5 next year. The issue I have is feedback/working on what I am doing wrong. There is a lack of mentors/assessors for new referee's currently so only yesterday did a local level 5 volunteer their time to come and watch me off the books. Which I was very grateful for as I've been asking my RDO pretty often for someone.

They have given me a wake up call in that I am maybe not as good as I think The major things being how to help sell decisions. Though I didn't make many wrong calls in his eyes, I struggled with explaining them to players sufficiently. For example, in the last 10 minutes or so I had a double booking for dissent which I could have handled better and got away with only 1 caution. Also my positioning was poor throughout. I keep up with play well enough, but find myself actively trying to avoid the centre circle and keep on the left of the ball. I sometimes got stuck on top of the ball as the players were unpredictable in their touches!

My question is - how do I work on these things outside of games? We are obviously coming up to the off season, so games will be lacking. I've put myself forward to a couple of local clubs for friendlies / youth tournaments to try and keep progressing. Is there anything I can do at home or in my free time to work on this?

I'm sure there were a number of other things that he could have picked up on, but these were the two we discussed after the game.

 

[alexgr]

Keep asking you RDO, even if there's a shortage, eventually they'll come to you!

Also think it's good to keep posting on here - there are some very knowledgeable members and, if you're not afraid of constructive criticism, you can learn a lot from yours and other people's mistakes.

 

[Padfoot]

First problem is that you are ‘planning’ to do 7-5......start by doing 7-6.....if you are exceptional you may get approached about the double jump.....but don’t set out expecting it.

In the last 5 years I have only known 1 referee offered the double jump in my County.......

 

[santa sangria]

Do more games. So many if the things you want to learn take time.

Do lines. Quiz the other officials before and after the game. (After a couple if years of lines I was with academy refs almost every game and my education rocketed - also started to be much easier to see what not to do).

And specifically, the centre circle: don't obsess. If the players/play isn't in it, it's not quick sand. Yes the diagonal and get side on - think more about getting an angle.

And explaining decisions: short answer, don't. Unless it's a complex point law or confused youth, you are just falling into a trap if you get into conversations about decisions. You made your decision, 99/100 times the players know and agree even though they all complain! Decide, blow, get on with the game!

Save the verbals for ceremonial warnings

 

[boblardo]

Agree with @Padfoot here, I went 7-6 although did consider 7-5 but whats the rush and why do you need the added pressure.
40 games, 6 observations, 2 x LOTG assessments, 5 AR appointments. what if you get injured? And if you don't get the games due to weather you have to go looking for them?

 

[Big Cat]

The major things being how to help sell decisions. Though I didn't make many wrong calls in his eyes, I struggled with explaining them to players sufficiently

Herein lies the biggest challenge as a referee. I have a notebook/mental list of short phrases to use, but these are useless in the absence of personality...
Thankfully I'm blessed with bundles of charisma (except when trolling @Padfoot), but even i would swerve the notion of 7-5 (I'm rooted to 7 anyway as i don't check studs!)

 

[RobOda]

I struggled with explaining them to players sufficiently.

How so? As in when you're talking to them to give them a caution, or just for any decision you've given?

Also my positioning was poor throughout. I keep up with play well enough, but find myself actively trying to avoid the centre circle and keep on the left of the ball.

That comes with experience really. There seems to be a debate on following the diagonal, running wide and so on. I personally feel that you simply need to keep the best angle/view for the play at the moment to identify fouls, and to put you in the best position to move to where play is going. If that means going through the centre circle, then do that - I don't think any part of the pitch is off limits for you, especially when you haven't got assistants to compress the play with.

I think you have the right idea with getting into friendlies and youth tournaments, it's all good match experience. If you're lucky to have a free public football pitch available to you, perhaps go out there on day and practice your positioning. You'll have to use your imagination for a lot of it, but try and visualise, "if play is here, where do I want to be?" Maybe replicate in your mind a match incident or whatever, and try and theorise where you could have improved. Because you're out there without a match going on, you can take a lot more time to contemplate things - you may find this useful, you might not though!

 

[MattTheRef]

How so? As in when you're talking to them to give them a caution, or just for any decision you've given?

I feel like I get into the details, and then trip myself up by not saying exactly what I'm thinking, almost like a brief overview. This was the situation:
Open age Sunday league, 80th minute of the game, blue team leading greens 2-1. 1 YC in the game for deliberate hb, both teams have nothing to play for as both mid table. Game was very light mannered.

Blue keeper has ball in his hands for an extended period of time (roughly 15 seconds), just as I'm about to encourage him to get a move on he releases and the game continues. Green keeper starts screaming from the opposite side of the pitch 'how long does he want' 'shall i do your job for you' etc etc.. I was within a reasonable distance of him so I simply said enough and gave a motion of my hand as if to say cut it out. He continued going on for another 30 seconds and included '**** off' as part of it.

Next break in play I stop the clock, approach the keeper tell him that he can't tell me to **** off, and book him. I didn't book him for the '**** off', but booked him for continuing to a level that I found was dissent after I had said enough. I didn't explain this correctly at the time as I wanted to get it over and done with and crack on with the game.

Unfortunately earlier in the game I had told another player that he can't tell me to **** off over a poor decision but only warned him, he accepted this and there was no further dialogue. Because of the previous incident this encouraged two other green players to run over and question why it's 1 rule for them, 1 rule for the other and I struggled to then get the correct wording out to explain it wasn't the same thing. In the end one continued enough that he talked himself into the book as well.

The remarks from my mentor were that I could have gotten away with a quiet word with the keeper, though he said he considered it to be a YC. Or that if I had been better at selling my decision I wouldn't have had to book the second player. I feel like when it gets to the stage of a caution I get caught up in trying to be fair to the player and give my view. Whereas I should really be blunter.

 

[MattTheRef]

Do more games. So many if the things you want to learn take time.

Do lines. Quiz the other officials before and after the game. (After a couple if years of lines I was with academy refs almost every game and my education rocketed - also started to be much easier to see what not to do).

Trying to get as many in as possible. 1 on Saturday, 2 on Sunday and any midweeks I can find.

Have been on the line for 2 semi-finals and a final so far this year. Got 1 more final coming up, and I am hoping to join the Wessex league as an AR next year.

 

[Deleted member 3014]

Much the same as me with both of your concerns tbh.

Positioning really frustrates me because like yourself I’ve found myself in the way or unnatural with my movement I’m conscious all the time of where I’m running, I watch other more experienced Referees & it comes natural to them, tbh I think it’ll just take time to get the hang of it my last game was an improvement I’m trying different methods but i think your just gonna have to get out there in a match environment and learn not sure you can do much alone on an empty field, maybe try and get to a local game and observe a ref yourself but have no fear your not the only new ref with positioning issues.

As for explaining what your thinking again I put it down to lack of experience with using refereeing terminology, I often see something go to address what I’ve seen & can’t get accross clearly what I’m trying to say, my worst is my pre match with captains in centre circle I don’t have a script and it just sort of comes out.
If you talk about a subject you know well and have years of experience in then it’s second nature & easy, to sell a decision or explain a decision on a subject that you have limited experience & knowledge on it becomes a lot harder.

All I can say is you can’t buy experience & the more you ref and the more you go through the same scenarios the easier it will become, remember your not the only one out there learning the game & believe me after my recent exploits on here your not doing to badly at all by the sounds of it.

Good luck with your promotion if you go for it.

 

[Big Cat]

'Game was lightly mannered', multiple instances of **** off. Unless the players are your mates and this was all horseplay, **** off (directed at you) equates to offinabus. Not sure who you had mentoring you

 

[RobOda]

I feel like I get into the details, and then trip myself up by not saying exactly what I'm thinking, almost like a brief overview.

I can understand that. It is generally why I try to keep things very brief if I need to talk at all.

Because of the previous incident this encouraged two other green players to run over and question why it's 1 rule for them, 1 rule for the other and I struggled to then get the correct wording out to explain it wasn't the same thing.

Ah, yes I can see why they would do that. This is something you're going to have to deal with because, you know the differences and finer margins and the players are unlikely to want to listen to the finer details anyway.

In this case, as you've already identified, your explanations got you into a bit of a bind. One thing I want to put forward to you, is that you don't always need to explain things, if at all, except where game management comes into play. You can always keep things very brief; "This is a caution for dissent." or "I'm cautioning you for this tackle." That's it, brief, to the point and in theory, gives the players nothing to attack you with.

Additionally, it might be worth considering what your strengths and weaknesses are. If talking is tripping you up, you have two options; Improve your skill with that, or limit it as much as possible. Some referees are naturally charismatic and can chat all day long and be listened to. Others, like myself, will talk myself into a bind. - I prefer to manage things with gestures, body language and short responses. Thumbs up, shake of the head, 'yes/no', 'go away', that's just easier for me, and players understand there's no point messing about. - I don't like to be unapproachable though, I will listen to players on occasion, especially if an unusual or rare situation happened, but I'll keep my responses etc brief, or I won't give a verbal response at all (nothing like the responses I give on here... evidently! )

Don't worry too much about it, you're recently qualified, and it'll take you some time and experience to get a feel for how you prefer to officiate the game, that's all part of your development. Keep an open mind, try new things, and if you're not comfortable with something, try a different method instead. That's the beauty of refereeing, you can do it so many different ways. Hope this gives you food for thought, good luck!

 

[Ben448844]

Just completing my first year as a level 7. I want to do the 7-6 next year and have applied to do just that. I've done 34 middles and 5 lines this season (probably another 60 middles in youth football when I first passed the old level 3 exam in 1999 but I only used to help out local youth teams and that stopped in about 2003).

I think I'm a good referee (don't we all!). I think I'm good with my signalling and have a relatively strong and fair demeanour. I'm fit having only just finished a 20 year playing career and thanks to picking up LOTG tips from this forum and occasional revision of the good book I have a decent level of knowledge for a level 7.

However, I know that there will be so many areas in which an assessor will pick up on to improve on and despite being up with play and usually fitter than the players I ref, I've no idea if my positioning is excellent or dreadful.

I'm hoping for assessments (genuinely, even if I fail the promotion as this is my hobby, I'm not in it for the money that's for sure!) but comments from refs who I've run the line for on 2 semi finals this year suggest that I may not even get an assessment during my promotion year due to the shortage of assessors. To the more experienced refs here, Does that seem correct or perhaps a little ?

 

[GraemeS]

Just completing my first year as a level 7. I want to do the 7-6 next year and have applied to do just that. I've done 34 middles and 5 lines this season (probably another 60 middles in youth football when I first passed the old level 3 exam in 1999 but I only used to help out local youth teams and that stopped in about 2003).

I think I'm a good referee (don't we all!). I think I'm good with my signalling and have a relatively strong and fair demeanour. I'm fit having only just finished a 20 year playing career and thanks to picking up LOTG tips from this forum and occasional revision of the good book I have a decent level of knowledge for a level 7.

However, I know that there will be so many areas in which an assessor will pick up on to improve on and despite being up with play and usually fitter than the players I ref, I've no idea if my positioning is excellent or dreadful.

I'm hoping for assessments (genuinely, even if I fail the promotion as this is my hobby, I'm not in it for the money that's for sure!) but comments from refs who I've run the line for on 2 semi finals this year suggest that I may not even get an assessment during my promotion year due to the shortage of assessors. To the more experienced refs here, Does that seem correct or perhaps a little ?

It depends where you are - Essex I think are relatively blessed, so I got 3 assessments in each of my 7-6 and 6-5 years. Other areas might struggle a little more, but I'd be surprised if you don't get at least 2 a year.

 

[jofusref]

seems to me the problems you have will go with experience, dont get into a debate with players, give the decision move on, if a player disagrees with a decision you explaining it wont change a thing. pity you are not being watched, if when you are and if you do get written feed back i am scottish so i dont know how things work in england, once you have read it got angry instead of throwing it in the bin, put it in a drawer forget it for at least three days calm down, read it again lol take it for what it is good advice, you will see it makes sense as already posted there are loads of us on here happy to help, it does get easier honest

 

[MattTheRef]

'Game was lightly mannered', multiple instances of **** off. Unless the players are your mates and this was all horseplay, **** off (directed at you) equates to offinabus. Not sure who you had mentoring you

2 instances, 1 at a decision rather than at me, the other more towards me but not enough for me to take offensive. My level of tolerance is that I should expect to hear '**** off' '**** sake' etc.. when it contains '**** off you XXX' that's when it reaches a RC level.

OFFINABUS is a subjective law IMO. 'Offensive insulting and abusive language'. I was not A) Offended B) Insulted or C) found it abusive.

 

[MattTheRef]

I can understand that. It is generally why I try to keep things very brief if I need to talk at all.



Ah, yes I can see why they would do that. This is something you're going to have to deal with because, you know the differences and finer margins and the players are unlikely to want to listen to the finer details anyway.

In this case, as you've already identified, your explanations got you into a bit of a bind. One thing I want to put forward to you, is that you don't always need to explain things, if at all, except where game management comes into play. You can always keep things very brief; "This is a caution for dissent." or "I'm cautioning you for this tackle." That's it, brief, to the point and in theory, gives the players nothing to attack you with.

Additionally, it might be worth considering what your strengths and weaknesses are. If talking is tripping you up, you have two options; Improve your skill with that, or limit it as much as possible. Some referees are naturally charismatic and can chat all day long and be listened to. Others, like myself, will talk myself into a bind. - I prefer to manage things with gestures, body language and short responses. Thumbs up, shake of the head, 'yes/no', 'go away', that's just easier for me, and players understand there's no point messing about. - I don't like to be unapproachable though, I will listen to players on occasion, especially if an unusual or rare situation happened, but I'll keep my responses etc brief, or I won't give a verbal response at all (nothing like the responses I give on here... evidently! )

Don't worry too much about it, you're recently qualified, and it'll take you some time and experience to get a feel for how you prefer to officiate the game, that's all part of your development. Keep an open mind, try new things, and if you're not comfortable with something, try a different method instead. That's the beauty of refereeing, you can do it so many different ways. Hope this gives you food for thought, good luck!

I am generally quite charismatic and work in sales as a day job so I am used to those situations. I think it comes down to the inexperience of how long or how short I should be in certain situations. Certainly lots of good points to take on board.

Thanks!

 

[lincs22]

OFFINABUS is a subjective law IMO. 'Offensive insulting and abusive language'. I was not A) Offended B) Insulted or C) found it abusive.

It is "Offensive insulting OR abusive language", it only needs to be one of the criteria, not AND as you originally mentioned.

 

[Big Cat]

2 instances, 1 at a decision rather than at me, the other more towards me but not enough for me to take offensive. My level of tolerance is that I should expect to hear '**** off' '**** sake' etc.. when it contains '**** off you XXX' that's when it reaches a RC level.

OFFINABUS is a subjective law IMO. 'Offensive insulting and abusive language'. I was not A) Offended B) Insulted or C) found it abusive.

It's 'a you have to be there'. There's a difference between a player who directs an [*&%^ OFF] in your direction as a 'manner of speaking' and the same player passing the comment with vitriol. How many times have we seen professional footballers go unpunished when such comments can easily be lip read? Only you can determine what is unacceptable as context is everything. My initial reaction to your PO was a bit black & white

 

[Padfoot]

2 instances, 1 at a decision rather than at me, the other more towards me but not enough for me to take offensive. My level of tolerance is that I should expect to hear '**** off' '**** sake' etc.. when it contains '**** off you XXX' that's when it reaches a RC level.

OFFINABUS is a subjective law IMO. 'Offensive insulting and abusive language'. I was not A) Offended B) Insulted or C) found it abusive.

Where does it stipulate that you, as the referee, has to be offended, insulted and/or abused before you can sanction the offence?